Hi, Distance by weight: The tesla roadster, batteries 992lbs divided by 1708lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .58 times x. (distance244mi.). Where x equals 421. The electric EVette, batteries 992lbs divided by 1,000lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .992 times x. (distance 417mi.). No more range anxiety. Any questions?
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
[QUOTE=unique electric car;8464]Hi, Joystick steering is the way to go. Steering wheels are so primitive, and they just get in the way. Electronic steering(drive by wire) a lot easier, and its fun.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette[/QUOTE]
Does the Steering by wire allow you to drive the car in Ontairo, Canada? Care to check out EV fest 2012 and see if you could fit that into your Exhibiting Plans?:gossip:
EV Fest Electric Vehicle Show, Torontoâs Premier Electric Vehicle Festival
Hi myelectricfly, I appreciate the offer, however I`m not in business and would have no reason to go. We live in Florida its a long way to Ontairo.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
Hi, One more time. Distance by weight: The tesla roadster, batteries 992lbs divided by 1708lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .58 times x. (distance244mi.). Where x equals 421. The electric EVette, batteries 992lbs divided by 1,000lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .992 times x. (distance 417mi.). No more range anxiety. Any questions?
Tom Sines:D
electricevette.com
Hi Tom, Not sure what lead to this part of the conversation, but - yup - one question - are you doing an apples to oranges comparison? The Tesla Roadster Battery PACK might weigh that, but there inside the pack includes Cooling Systems, a heavy case to make it crush proof ( I watched the Crash Test Videos) pumps, and more.
The Actual Cells and modules donât weigh that all up weight. Lets do the Math - 6830 cells - at a cell weight of 46.0 Grams for the Samsung ICR18650-24E = a total Cell weight of 314.18 Kg = 691.196 Lbs Total Cell Weight for the Tesla Roadster.
I just did a Google Search for these words: âWeight of Tesla Roadster Battery Case all upâ - (Without the Quotes, and the first file that came up was a pdf from Tesla Motors Website: TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf - which says the whole up pack weighs in at 450 Kg = the figure you used (990 - 992 Lbs)
Run the EVette through the same Crash Tests as the Roadster and see if your battery case remains intact, show us the video, and then lets compare. Would that not be fair?
Now - the 300 mile range at 55 Mph Tesla Model S - what are your numbers compared to that? And if your EVette can drive 417 Miles, make it charge with a standard NEMA 30 Amp Plug and a J1772, and Drive it up to Toronto, Show us what you have created - that is better than a Tesla Model S!
[QUOTE=unique electric car;10495]Hi, One more time. Distance by weight: The tesla roadster, batteries 992lbs divided by 1708lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .58 times x. (distance244mi.). Where x equals 421. The electric EVette, batteries 992lbs divided by 1,000lbs vehicle(without batteries) equals .992 times x. (distance 417mi.). No more range anxiety. Any questions?
Tom Sines:D
electricevette.com[/QUOTE]
Tom, you started up a little fire here! Your message says 417 miles range per charge but your websites âaboutâ page says 200 miles âand moreâ per charge. Please re-write the specs page and include it - showing range at various steady state speeds, and driver (various drivers) experienced range per charge.
My own DC Powered Electric Firefly (Geo Metro) goes further on the Highway than on the street - due to no Regeneration and crazy start-stop driver habits I have to fit with, so I am sure your car would have the same issues.
Oh - I did make an error - the Tesla Roaster pack does not have 6,830 Cells - it has - 6,831 Cells - in 11 modules of 621 Cells, and delivers 56 kWh of energy.
Which 24-40 Batteries are you using in the Electric EVette? Lead Acid, NiMH, Lithium Iron Phosphate, or Lithium Polymer? (Or should I say - Cells - since only one brand of Lithium cells comes in 12V Modules for Electric Vehicle Applications - the others are just for Gas Engine Starting Applications.)
If you are running two 9" DC Motors - you get limited if any Regeneration likely, twice the motor weight at least over the roadsters 115 Lbs Single Motor, and you have not taken your vehicle up to speeds of what my own Electricfly has been driven on the Highway with crappy Lead Acid Batteries, - let alone the Tesla Roadsters top speeds.
Why did you - out of the blue - start a comparison with a production vehicle that meets Safety standards, UN Standards, and more with your single, sample vehicle?
âTesla Motors will not be able to sell and deliver cars to its customers unless the production battery pack has met rigorous testing standards set by the UN or substitute testing agreed to by the United States Department of
Transportation. Finally, we have passed all required tests from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS). This involves crashing of complete cars with functional battery packs in them.â
Funny - it seems like this posting should have been in some other thread or personal email, because I simply invited you to bring and show your vehicle at EV Fest 2012 - as an example of the various range of Electric Car ideas that can be built.
I think you (Really) want to show how superior your car is to the Most expensive Personally exhibited vehicle at my previous two shows, and so I say - jump on the website for EV Fest, follow the steps to qualify to Exhibit, and register as an exhibitor, bring it up and show us how good it really is!
Thanks for this enjoyable side trip! Robert
Hi myelectricfly, Let me be more specific. If the electric EVette, had 992lbs of lithium batteries, and calculating distance by weight, it should go 417mi. The tesla weighs 1,708lbs(without batteries) the EVette weighs 1,000lbs(without batteries). Do the math.
Tom Sines:D
electricevette.com
[QUOTE=unique electric car;10501]Hi myelectricfly, Let me be more specific. If the electric EVette, had 992lbs of lithium batteries, and calculating distance by weight, it should go 417mi. The tesla weighs 1,708lbs(without batteries) the EVette weighs 1,000lbs(without batteries). Do the math. Tom Sines:D
electricevette.com[/QUOTE]
Hi Tom, While math is fine - I have observed that as optimistic people, we often overlook some part of the equation - so my point is simple - If you build it, they will come - being the theory - so build a 417 mile range Electric EVette and demonstrate it - then see if they come!
Take it out to the highway and cruise at 70 mph some distance, and monitor itâs energy performance. Take it to the track and run some 1/4 miles in a competition! Run it in a rally or road race, maybe! Letâs see itâs range of capabilities.
To market the car at retail - you will have to have way more money behind such a project than it would take to demonstrate it at EV Fest 2012, as a Personal Vehicle Exhibit!
As I said - I am still unclear as to why you began this thread as if it was a continuation from a thought I generated?! Maybe point us to where you were picking up the thread from, that lead you to this point of promotion?! How this relates to an invitation to Drive (or Trailer) the car to Toronto, Ontario, for EV Fest 2012, I still canât get the connection, but I enjoy the discourse!
Beyond that - there is very little information on the website from which to âDo the Mathâ, as you say. It does not define the specific motors, or their weights singular or combined, it does not give the Coefficient of Drag, (CD), nor does it share the specific Frontal Area in Square Feet or Square Meters, or the energy used per mile at 10 mph, 20 mph, 30 mph, 40 mph, 50 mph, 55 mph (In many places still the speed limit), 60 mph, or 70 mph (Speed limit on most freeways).
Hard to do the math when I donât know how much energy your car uses per mile at various speeds! I donât have the basic inputs to enter into the equation!
I see no pictures of meters, gauges or monitors that can process these kinds of information directly so you likely will have to have a co-driver and a clipboard to tally it out!
There are no charts or graphs showing any of this information, and while your car has a very low nose line - the very high wedge shape is not that aerodynamic at the back, and is in fact the opposite approach and departure dimensions of a Clark-Y Wing Airfoil.
If you put the drive motor system on a pair of 16" or 17" wheels in stead of those tundra tires, could you not improve the General Aerodynamics of the wedge? For aerodynamic Drag at highway speeds taking up some 60-70% of the total drag ans power needs, I would like to see some more figures on the cars energy efficiency. Why are those monster Tires a specific requirement for this design? What is the cars 0-60 mph time? Or - itâs 60 - 0 mph Stop Distance? Skid Pad G Rating? Maximum Slalom Speed when tested?
My Electricfly (Which I do not compare with a Tesla Roadster) has been demonstrated and the data logged to realize some of the best and worst comparisons. In short Aggressive Runs of about a mile, it has shown energy use of 277 - 285 Wh/Km (Watt hours per Kilometer), and in gentle, easy babying runs over the same course to consume as little as 67 - 100 Wh/Km. At highways speeds I use about 13,700 Wats to Travel at a steady speed of 100 Kph, which I have rounded off to 140 Wh/Km.
And this is with, As I said - a crappy Trojan SCS150 Lead Acid Battery Pack, which are some of the worst Batteries for an EV - I was warned before I bought them, but was in a panic mode at the time! This is at the current 2,000 lb curb weight, not my end goal target of some 1,750 lbs or less with Lithium Batteries and a new light-wight AC-35 motor!
When I bought my car, and in my research - I was told they had driven the car to a distance of 60 Kms. on a charge, I was not told under what conditions, of speed, or grade, or traffic, or stops signs or traffic lights, or hills, etc. Nor was I told with which Batteries, or the source of them!
So while the studentâs who built it might have driven it around their track, away from traffic, lights, signs, etc., on a level grade and at a steady speed and the right gear and motor rpm for the best energy use - I did not get any of those details - and the best I ever got was some 38 Kms. on a charge!
My point is - range given - without conditions, is a suspect number! As you can see from my car - with the Trojans likely best 1 hour rating of about 29 Ah - you could expect something on the order of 2.9 kWh at 100% DOD - so about 2320 Wh to 80% DOD.
Using the 2320 Wh figure - Now you can do the math to see my cars expected range at 25C = ~ 16 Kms at highway speed - steady state (shorter than this due to an Acceleration point of at least one before the steady state), and at worst energy use - about 8 kms; but - at best energy use - maybe as much as 34 Kms (If I could maintain some energy use as low as 67 Wh/Km for the duration! - Unlikely!)!
In any case - using the figures shown - you can see that My Electricfly has a performance spread (Calculated, at 25C) of from 8 Kms, to 34 Kms. and a likely best of maybe 15 kms. In the winter - multiply by about 0.5 means about half of the above distances!
In any case - enjoy the list of exhibitors we had at last years show!
We had at EV Fest 2011 - the Zot2 - a nice little two seat roadster type, that used the Suzuki Swift GTi drive train, Custom Built frame, and a Lotic Replicar Body, with an AC-50 Motor, ThunderSky Lithium Iron Phosphate Cells, Built by a retired GM Engineer in his own shop, and we have the link on the website - currently at the bottom area of the home page!
evfest dot ca
Robert Weekley
myelectricfly dot com
nogas96volts dot blogspot dot com
evalbum dot com / 1219
Hi myelectricfly, I think you missed the point. Im saying, conventional cars do not make good electric cars, they cant bold enough batteries to get the distance. Because its not only about better batteries, its also about more batteries more distance. The tesla weighs 1708lbs(without batteries) way to heavy. Thats the elephant in the room.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
Well - I think most of us know the Tesla Roadster was a Compromise - to get the car faster to market! And - it was - just as my Electricfly is - an EV Conversion - just done at a much Higher level!
Hi myelectricfly,
Conventional electric cars are dinosaurs, they are way to heavy, they don`t carry enough batteries, and steering them requires several hunderd pounds of apparatis, steering wheel, front wheels, suspension, etc. electronic steering (drive by wire) is the way to go. Save all that weight, add batteries instead. The elecric EVette has joystick steering. Think about it.
Tom Sines
Electric EVette
Interesting! Seem Like GMâs idea of Range Anxiety with EVâs has permeated even the creators (Inventors)!
My own idea - is much simpler - since most of us commute 5-7 days a week for 48 - 50 weeks a year, and seldom drive more than an hour each way to and from work (60 miles), simply change the last part - live closer to where you work, and do the commuting using a Lighter, shorter range requiring car (Less Batteries), and rent a different vehicle for vacation Trips!
If you could get away with a LSV - for commuting - even better! (Not Legally possible in Ontario - we are so far advanced - we have to protect our people from hurting themselves! Itâs OK to be killed on a Motorcycle - but - heaven forbid someone should die in a Low Speed Electric Vehicle!)
Actually - the Electric Motorbike is even better - since it uses just half a lane, or the Tango - but that is a bit less affordable!
My own idea - is much simpler - since most of us commute 5-7 days a week for 48 - 50 weeks a year, and seldom drive more than an hour each way to and from work (60 miles), simply change the last part - live closer to where you work, and do the commuting using a Lighter, shorter range requiring car (Less Batteries), and rent a different vehicle for vacation Trips!
Hi myelectricfly, Funny stuff! I heard that one when gas was $2.00 a gallon. Now gas is almost $4.00 a gallon. People are still not buying electric cars. No range no sale.
Tom Sines
electricevette.com
[QUOTE=unique electric car;10528]I heard that one when gas was $2.00 a gallon. Now gas is almost $4.00 a gallon. People are still not buying electric cars. No range no sale. Tom Sines
electricevette.com[/QUOTE]
Hi Tom - Funny you should say that - As the webmaster and online communications point person for the Electric Vehicle Society of Canada - I can tell when the price of Gas moves up suddenly - by the number of Online orders for our Electric Vehicle Conversion Manual - and I can also tell you this - when Gas moves up a penny or two a gallon, on a spacing of a week or two - not many orders come in.
When it moves up 5-10 Cents a Gallon per week - a few orders start coming in, until it is stable for about a month or two, then the orders taper off!
Even Funnier - On my way to a Meeting with the Group, at a local College - I once looked at 5 Gas Stations to get gas for my Station Wagon ICE wheels! So - yes EV Range is important - but my own car is a little Firefly (Geo Metro) that I want to keep as a 4-seat machine, not stuff with Batteries - of any Chemistry. If I had a little Suzuki X-90 - I could and would add more batteries - since it is by design a 2 - seat vehicle.
That is why I am working on a plan to go with Lithium Cells - and use the gas Tank Space, and later the under Car space as the longer range option, and #3 = a Battery/Generator Trailer, potentially mixed with Solar PV for the âRange Extenderâ Option!
My first goal is to be able to drive a lighter EV, second - to go beyond my work/shopping distance range requirement. Once I can do enough with one EV that I donât need the gas/ice machine - I will just rent a Hybrid or Regular car for the 5-8 trips a year I do that are over an hour!
I might even buy an OEM EV in that mix at some time - since I donât have a Shop of my own, or even a driveway to work on my car, just the parking lot of a small apartment building, but a few garages are quite close!
Oh - by the way - More Nissan LEAFâs sold in the USA in 2011 - than Hybrids sold there in their first year of sales - 12 years back! So People are actually buying EVâs at better than expected rates when realistic targets are compared! See evtv dot me - Jan. 20/2012 Video for Reference. (The LEAF, for all of itâs âRange Anxietyâ Issues - also outsold the Mighty GM Volt with itâs Built In - Anxiety Buster --oops Range Extender Gas Powered Charger (Heavy Baggage!).
Robert Weekley
[QUOTE=myelectricfly;10529]Hi Tom - Funny you should say that - As the webmaster and online communications point person for the Electric Vehicle Society of Canada - I can tell when the price of Gas moves up suddenly - by the number of Online orders for our Electric Vehicle Conversion Manual - and I can also tell you this - when Gas moves up a penny or two a gallon, on a spacing of a week or two - not many orders come in.
When it moves up 5-10 Cents a Gallon per week - a few orders start coming in, until it is stable for about a month or two, then the orders taper off!
Even Funnier - On my way to a Meeting with the Group, at a local College - I once looked at 5 Gas Stations to get gas for my Station Wagon ICE wheels! So - yes EV Range is important - but my own car is a little Firefly (Geo Metro) that I want to keep as a 4-seat machine, not stuff with Batteries - of any Chemistry. If I had a little Suzuki X-90 - I could and would add more batteries - since it is by design a 2 - seat vehicle.
That is why I am working on a plan to go with Lithium Cells - and use the gas Tank Space, and later the under Car space as the longer range option, and #3 = a Battery/Generator Trailer, potentially mixed with Solar PV for the âRange Extenderâ Option!
My first goal is to be able to drive a lighter EV, second - to go beyond my work/shopping distance range requirement. Once I can do enough with one EV that I donât need the gas/ice machine - I will just rent a Hybrid or Regular car for the 5-8 trips a year I do that are over an hour!
I might even buy an OEM EV in that mix at some time - since I donât have a Shop of my own, or even a driveway to work on my car, just the parking lot of a small apartment building, but a few garages are quite close!
Oh - by the way - More Nissan LEAFâs sold in the USA in 2011 - than Hybrids sold there in their first year of sales - 12 years back! So People are actually buying EVâs at better than expected rates when realistic targets are compared! See evtv dot me - Jan. 20/2012 Video for Reference. (The LEAF, for all of itâs âRange Anxietyâ Issues - also outsold the Mighty GM Volt with itâs Built In - Anxiety Buster --oops Range Extender Gas Powered Charger (Heavy Baggage!).
Robert Weekley[/QUOTE]
Hi myelectricfly, 10,000 volts 20,000leafs sold. Might as well be zero electric cars sold.
Tom Sines
electricevette.com
:censored:[QUOTE=unique electric car;10531]Hi myelectricfly, 10,000 volts 20,000leafs sold. Might as well be zero electric cars sold.
Tom Sines electricevette.com[/QUOTE]
< Beating a Dead Horse!
This is just getting too much fun, Tom!
And how many Electric EVetteâs Sold in that same period? 
(My Guess - about the same number as new Electric Fireflyâs to new owners!)
On the Other Hand - eBikes, and Electric Scooters still outsold them all!
Look at the numbers on those and do the math! The Vehicle and Battery Pack weighs less than the Rider!
Hi myelectricfly, Let me be clear. Controversy brings more interest to a cause. Also, I`m an EV advocate, and have helped convert lots of gas cars, and even a few scooters to electric. OK, lets get to it. The horse we are talking about is the one you are trying to ride, thinking it will get up and out run the gas car in sales. The oil companys are laughing their guts out. Also, you made my case, when you say scooters have small batteries,hence small distance.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
Hi,
We are the inventors of, and hold the proprietary
rights to a unique electric car, that has some attributes not seen on conventional cars. Including, exceptional maneuverability, electronic steering(drive by wire), with autonomous driving possibilitys, and a very large battery capacity for distance. A video of this prototype electric car can be seen at Electric EVette.
This car can carry a substantial pay load, is built with standard parts off the shelf, and uses no exotic parts.
This car would, also make a great recreational vebicle. Living in Florida, we have driven the car on beaches, and in swampy areas with no problems, because of the large tires, and light weight. Also, the car has two powerful motors, so driving up steep hills, and rough terrain is not a problem. Please, check out video at website. Looking forward to your response.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
Hi, As America circles the transportation drain, people still want what they want. No change in sight.
Tom Sines:D
Electric EVette
Hi, The steering wheel is unnecessary and it just gets in the way. Drive by wire is easy and fun. See it at Electric EVette.
Tom Sines:D