The Brakes are bled, the tire well welded in place and painted, Tires are back on the car, I’m calling it a night.:yo:
:rapture: Hi, I just came in to eat, and update this blog. I sold the first car today and am happy it will still serve a useful pourpose. The front trays are secure and finished except for painting. I’ll take some pictures later and post them. State Farm has changed it’s ploicy about electric cars, they now charge extra for them as the components are pricy. They also want pictures of what they are insuring, and a odometer reading. The wiring that I am not going to use has been tucked into the area between the fender and inner fender, I may find use for some of it later, better not to cut the unused wires. I am still pondering how to secure the rear tray to the car. Things still to do, install vacuum pump, vacuum switch and vacuum lines. Install DC to DC Converter. Install and hook up the Control Board. Wire the Gauges. Clean, Service and install the Batteries. I also took the liberty of power washing the car while it was still on the hoist including the engine compartment and the under carriage.
I hope to be driving it on the road by tomorrow night!!! There is a motor overheat alarm and the tachometer I also have to wire into the car.:lalala:
Taxes… bla, bla, bla…:eek:
You name it it has kept me from working on my car!!! LOL
I mounted the vacuum pump and vacuum switch in the front of the car it is hooked up except for the positive terminal. I also mounted the DC to DC Converter up front too. Once the board is positioned in the car I’ll wire it for high voltage. As you can see I mounted some of my gauges overhead between the visors, I used a block of plywood behind the headliner and once I have it wired I’ll put some Liquid Nails on it to make it permanent. I wreseled with how to secure the rear tray down and came up with welding in 1/4 inch steel plates on the bottom between the reinforcing rods. I will do the same on the bottom of the unibody and drill holes for 1/2 inch hardened bolts, washers, lock washers and nuts. That way I can remove it easier than in my first car. I also caulked the cover where the spare tire used to go for air tightness and water leakage, I used neopream flashing caulk, just like undercoating.:bounce:
Progress is going slow, I had to drill ten 9/16 holes in the rear box in 1/32nd incriments, that’s allot of drilling. I then used hardened bolts, washers, lock washers, and nuts to hold it in, I don’t want one thouldsand pounds of batteries on me in case of a accident. LOL I also had to drill the holes for the high voltage lines to come into the rear of the car. The largest drill I had wasn’t big enough so I had to use a file to finish the holes. Then I lifted the batteries into place after thouroghly washing them and wiping them down. I put a hour of charge into each of them as they had been sitting all winter in the other car. As the batteries are in a different configuration I had to figure which connections I could use and which I needed to replace. Upon inspection I noticed that some of them were corroded. So I looked around for something cast iron to use as a smelting pot but I couldn’t find anything but a old brake drum. I opened the vise and put it in at a angle after wiping it out. I took one pound of 50/50 sodder and started heating the drum with a propane torch, I had seen my dad do this when I was young to make sinkers for fishing. Yesterday was cleaning day in the garage I had bought some new lugs and could not find them so when I clean I usually find what I am looking for. But not yesterday, so this morning I went to the welding supply and bought some more, the only thing is they were not tinned, so after sanding them and fluxing them they were ready for the smelting pot. With safety glasses on I dipped each one into the lead and rolled them around thus tinning them one at a time, by the time the next one was ready the molton lead had cooled and the process of heating it started all over again. Once I got the lugs tinned I turned my focus to the connections I had decided to use in this car, cleaning fluxing and tinning them one at a time. I then cleaned the lead on the battery with a copper brush so they would have the best connection they could have to the terminals.:fish2:
:pI have most of the wiring done, the gauges are wired in the overhead, the DC to DC converter is wired up, I just sat down to figure out which wire to tap into for my keyed 12 volt source to run a relay for the control board. I also have to tap into the dimmer switch for the overhead gauge lights. Tap a wire on the blower switch to run the contactor for the heat. Wire in the alarm for the overheat on the motor. I also have to make a reluctor and install the cherry for the tach. 
I ordered some lugs from EV of America Inc. today as I have to make some more propulsion battery wires, I had some extra lugs but I cannot locate them in my garage, probably a good thing as I cleaned the garage and orginized it looking for them, I also found some of my tools I had been looking for. LOL:dance:
I had a coupler left over from the first progect and assumed it was the correct shaft size on each end of the motor… WRONG :mad: I discovered this after the reluctor was made and installed on the coupler. The shaft size was 3/4 inch and the coupler was 1 1/8, what to do make a new reluctor and scrap the one I just spent three hours making? A quick call to a electric motor shop and some questions about a shim, the guy couldn’t picture what I was talking about and asked me to come into the shop and show him. He got the idea I was going to couple two motors together. I went in and he showed me a couple of things I might try. Of course the machine shop was his first suggestion. Too expensive for me. I settled on a adjustable pully 3/4 inch keyed for the shaft, I thought about notching th pully out and make the reluctor from it but the cast iron wasn’t as magnetic as the steel seemed to be so I decided to file the threads off the pully and make it fit inside of the coupler. Boy is that a slow process. How do you make a poor mans lathe? Well I have a very nice drill set that goes to one inch, so the 3/4 inch drill fit inside the shaft hole very nicely, I then set the set screw on the drill bit and with a pull of the trigger on the drill I had the poor mans lathe!!! Necessity is the mother of invention. So I took my file and held it to the pully as it rotated and checked it every so often for fit, as I didn’t want it too small. and within 15 minutes the coupler was fitted to the pully, a perfict fit!!!:thumb:
:clap2:I still have to make some battery links fully charge the batteries,
:director::amen::plane: install, wireing for the sensor and make a bracket for the sensor for the reluctor. Tomorrow barring some unforseen block the car will be on the road!!! Yippie ki yiaya ah!!!:cool2:
:usa2:I finished the battery wires today and gave them a full charge. I installed the reluctor assembly and made a bracket for the proximity switch. With the tires in the air I tested the drivability in all gears, it’s a go!!! Tomorrow all I have to do is wire the proximity switch, put the passenger tire back on and take it out for a spin. :playball: HALLEUAH!!! :amen:
I drove my car about 22 miles today. Out to breakfast this morning and to the gym this afternoon, the batteries seem weak? they didn’t see much action last year so I am breaking them like new ones. :loco:
I finally took the time to reread Dave Kohler’s article and I wired it accordingly and presto majico it works. Here is the link to a wiring diagram for it.Wiring Diagram For Finished Tachometer | The Similarly Stimulated Saturn
Great post, was curious though as to where you obtain your
Saturn parts. I’m not really sure where to look, but thanks for the advice.
Saturn Station Wagon EV - Just checking in on the progress over the last couple years - this thread seemed to have died!
I was considering a Saturn SC1 - but using Lithium Iron Phosphate Cells - either HiPower or ThunderSky - If i can fit them - or Headway Cell if I have height restrictions - they will only be put in the Gas Tank Space - the Car won’t be hacked for ‘more battery space’ but I might make a little ‘Battery Trailer’ for flexible extra range points.
What do you think of this approach?
Hi, My car is battery dead at the moment and waiting for better LifePO4’s to come out that I can afford. I now have a 1998 Ford Electric Ranger that is powered by 104 High Power 100 amphr batteries. Theese batteries would not survive the demands that a DC system would require, my truck is powered by a three phase AC system.
We have a guy that has a car in our group that uses a AC system, if you want to use AC it may be possible to use LifePO4’s
My car uan at 144 volts and could require as much as 600 amps starting out and accelerating, the high power are only a 2c rating, that means they will maximum discharge at 200 amps and only for a short period.
So if you had 200amphr batteries that were rated at 3c they would probably work but you would have to talk to the Manufacturer not the guy selling them as he wants to make a sale and doesn’t care about them frying. That is using a 144 volt system. Remember that having a higher voltage reduces the amperage dimand, so the performance I enjoyed in this car, at a lower voltage acceleration and range would be compermised. I did not build a NEV this car could and did at least as good as gas cars but most of the time it was far superior.
One more thing you need to consider, LifePO4 does not like going below the minimum voltage or going over the maximum voltage per each cell, so they need to be protected. There are a couple of ways to protect them, if you are still interested let me know and I might be able to point you in the right direction as to what I used in my truck.
I hope this helps
new dawn, as in the dawning of a new era
[QUOTE=new dawn;10492]Hi, My car is battery dead at the moment and waiting for better LifePO4’s to come out that I can afford. I now have a 1998 Ford Electric Ranger that is powered by 104 High Power 100 amphr batteries. Theese batteries would not survive the demands that a DC system would require, my truck is powered by a three phase AC system.
We have a guy that has a car in our group that uses a AC system, if you want to use AC it may be possible to use LifePO4’s
My car uan at 144 volts and could require as much as 600 amps starting out and accelerating, the high power are only a 2c rating, that means they will maximum discharge at 200 amps and only for a short period.
So if you had 200amphr batteries that were rated at 3c they would probably work but you would have to talk to the Manufacturer not the guy selling them as he wants to make a sale and doesn’t care about them frying. That is using a 144 volt system. Remember that having a higher voltage reduces the amperage dimand, so the performance I enjoyed in this car, at a lower voltage acceleration and range would be compermised. I did not build a NEV this car could and did at least as good as gas cars but most of the time it was far superior.
One more thing you need to consider, LifePO4 does not like going below the minimum voltage or going over the maximum voltage per each cell, so they need to be protected. There are a couple of ways to protect them, if you are still interested let me know and I might be able to point you in the right direction as to what I used in my truck.
I hope this helps
new dawn, as in the dawning of a new era[/QUOTE]
Great - I don’t own the Saturn - it is a 2001 3-door near me at a used car dealer. Just in the mode of thinking of it should I build a car for myself. I would likely use an AC-31 or AC-50 Motor.
I do own an Electric firefly (Geo Metro) still a lead sled - but it was student built ( High School) 15 years ago. I am working on a plan for using 80 Ah x 105V Headway Cells (160 x 16Ah cells 32S5P). Currently on Trojan SCS150 12V Flooded batteries - I was slowed by traffic at about 108 kph (65 mph) on the freeway - but voltage sag was 9V below minimum!
see myelectricfly (Ctrl+Enter) for the website.
Most current draw I ever saw on my car was 240 Amps, and the controller is limited to 450 Amps. so saying you need 600 amps - sound like a relatively high number for me! Just seems like a lot of wasted power there. I am running just 96 volts, 2000 lbs curb weight, and essentially the worst flooded deep cycle batteries for high current draw!
Just trying some used Power Battery AGM’s to check them out, while I put my plan together for the head way pack - I have 4 samples of each of their sizes - the 8Ah 20C, and the 10, 12, and 16 Ah 10C Cells. One step at a time. Since the net 80Ah pack at the cell level could do 800 Amps at 10C, and my controller is set at 450 Amps - I believe - even if the pack can only do 600 Amps - I will be fine and have a good margin!
Robert
[QUOTE=myelectricfly;10493]Great - I don’t own the Saturn - it is a 2001 3-door near me at a used car dealer. Just in the mode of thinking of it should I build a car for myself. I would likely use an AC-31 or AC-50 Motor.
I do own an Electric firefly (Geo Metro) still a lead sled - but it was student built ( High School) 15 years ago. I am working on a plan for using 80 Ah x 105V Headway Cells (160 x 16Ah cells 32S5P). Currently on Trojan SCS150 12V Flooded batteries - I was slowed by traffic at about 108 kph (65 mph) on the freeway - but voltage sag was 9V below minimum!
see myelectricfly (Ctrl+Enter) for the website.
Most current draw I ever saw on my car was 240 Amps, and the controller is limited to 450 Amps. so saying you need 600 amps - sound like a relatively high number for me! Just seems like a lot of wasted power there. I am running just 96 volts, 2000 lbs curb weight, and essentially the worst flooded deep cycle batteries for high current draw!
Just trying some used Power Battery AGM’s to check them out, while I put my plan together for the head way pack - I have 4 samples of each of their sizes - the 8Ah 20C, and the 10, 12, and 16 Ah 10C Cells. One step at a time. Since the net 80Ah pack at the cell level could do 800 Amps at 10C, and my controller is set at 450 Amps - I believe - even if the pack can only do 600 Amps - I will be fine and have a good margin!
Robert[/QUOTE]
The controller was a curtis it was supposed to max out at 500 amps.but two transmissions later. I have since sold the curtis and now have a homemade with IGBT’s in it. Also my car was over 2000bls I have the weight somewhere in this thread. Lead is way more forgiving than LifePO4’s are just keep that in mind and build a safety factor into the mix or you will pay allot of money for one or two rides and then declining performance.
Bob
[QUOTE=new dawn;10506]The controller was a curtis it was supposed to max out at 500 amps.but two transmissions later. I have since sold the curtis and now have a homemade with IGBT’s in it. Also my car was over 2000bls I have the weight somewhere in this thread. Lead is way more forgiving than LifePO4’s are just keep that in mind and build a safety factor into the mix or you will pay allot of money for one or two rides and then declining performance.
Bob[/QUOTE]
Hi Bob, Well - I intend to start with 12V Modules for initial Testing. I have 4 each of the Headway 8AH - 16 Ah Cells, so if I blow something - I at least am blowing less while testing at step 1. $ Cells cost like $60 - $100 - so not too bad.
I figure to do basic load tests and record the cycles, and later to put them up to extreme load tests - up to 15C for 10 Seconds and 10C until at cut-off voltages. The test will be to determine Cell connection durability, general temperature rise, cooling requirements, and all be done first in a static or stable test table, before being repeated in a Shake Table to determine connection integrity in service (lots of pot holes on local roads, and hot-cold-hot winter cycles this year creates even more!).
If I can also test - in a fridge and oven test, both no load and under load - charge and discharge. I might Need a Beer Fridge and a Lab Oven or a sort to get some basic ideas on the temps.
I Might along the way make a small 32S1P $800.00 Pack for in car sampling before building the full on 160 Cell Pack. It would be enough to simply demonstrate Lithium drive, and only weigh about 16 Kg / 35.2 Lbs Plus the case! (Way less than my Trojans 400 lbs of Batteries!) Instant 260 Lbs. curb weight reduction!
Robert
By the way - I never seem to have the time to watch the long form video much - but sometimes I make it to ‘evtv dot me’ to check out what is new, and the blog is a good synopsis some times!
They do not have any quick cuts - or 5-10 minutes clips, most of their video pieces are 60 - 180 minutes in length, so if you have the time - they can be worth the watch!
Oh - also - what is your take on my comparison of the Lead-Acid vs Lithium Iron Phosphate on my website - under ‘White Papers’?
> “myelectricfly dot com” > Bottom of Menu - ‘White Papers’ > two reports: 1st is a two page; 2nd is a 4 page.
[QUOTE=myelectricfly;10509]Hi Bob, Well - I intend to start with 12V Modules for initial Testing. I have 4 each of the Headway 8AH - 16 Ah Cells, so if I blow something - I at least am blowing less while testing at step 1. $ Cells cost like $60 - $100 - so not too bad.
I figure to do basic load tests and record the cycles, and later to put them up to extreme load tests - up to 15C for 10 Seconds and 10C until at cut-off voltages. The test will be to determine Cell connection durability, general temperature rise, cooling requirements, and all be done first in a static or stable test table, before being repeated in a Shake Table to determine connection integrity in service (lots of pot holes on local roads, and hot-cold-hot winter cycles this year creates even more!).
If I can also test - in a fridge and oven test, both no load and under load - charge and discharge. I might Need a Beer Fridge and a Lab Oven or a sort to get some basic ideas on the temps.
I Might along the way make a small 32S1P $800.00 Pack for in car sampling before building the full on 160 Cell Pack. It would be enough to simply demonstrate Lithium drive, and only weigh about 16 Kg / 35.2 Lbs Plus the case! (Way less than my Trojans 400 lbs of Batteries!) Instant 260 Lbs. curb weight reduction!
Robert[/QUOTE]
We have a guy in our car club that used rc batteries, I saw him at a event this fall but not since and am interested in how things are working out. He actually had it running on the road at the event. I was very impressed by it.
Bob
[QUOTE=new dawn;10511]We have a guy in our car club that used rc batteries, I saw him at a event this fall but not since and am interested in how things are working out. He actually had it running on the road at the event. I was very impressed by it.
Bob[/QUOTE]
Interesting you should mention that - I just did a rough draft of a 20 Ah, 103.6V 40C Pack that fits in the space of 1 Lead Acid Group 31 Case, using the GENS ACE 10000mAh 7.4V 40C HardCase Lipo Battery (Direct) available now from Hobby Parts. $62.63 Each, 28 pieces, $1,753.64 for the set!
The Cells would lay flat, with the cell length going in the cases width, the cells width going side by side in the cases length (7 pieces), and 4 layers deep = 28 Batteries - each in a 2S Configuration, with 14 sets wired in series, and two series sets wired in parallel, for the 20 Ah!
It would be my ‘Sport Pack’ with the cell weight at just 15.736 Kg, or about 34.6 lbs! 20 Ah x 40 C = 800 Amps Continuous, and 1600 Amps 10 Second burst!
Cycle Life is not as good as LiFePO4 - but it would be an interesting power unit to switch in for a ‘Sport’ mode! Sitting Very Close to the Controller wired on a Switching Contactor, It could be switched from the regular pack to sport mode! At least that is the thought!
Here is smething I just came across the calb’s 100 amp hr with 8c discharge that’s 800 amps for 10 seconds here is a link to ebay Electric Vehicle Battery CALB LiFePO4 100Ah - EV Batteries - 4 pack | eBay