Hello all, I have been working on a 1996 Saturn SC2 for a few weeks converting it similar to the last SC2. I have followed the thread of the last SC2, and I was very excited and encouraged by the success of that project.
First of all I have to thank my very generous mechanic and friend, Cal, as I could not do this project without him because he has his own professional mechanic’s shop and much expertise in anything mechanical and electrical, and every tool you could need for this major project. What I have is a 1996 Saturn SC2, white in color, that I bought from a friend for $200 cash because it had a blown motor, I guess there was an internal oil leak and some part was run without oil and the engine was ruined. I removed the gas tank, exhaust, old motor, coolant system, and everything not needed in the final product. I bought a kit through KTA Services that was very expensive and took forever to get all the parts here, I ordered it in July and the parts finally came in mid October. I more than likely won’t do business with KTA Services again, I think they are just a middle man and get all of their parts from various sources including EV of America, they told me thats where they got their adapter plate so next time I might try them, or if you guys have had success with other kit suppliers I will try them. These pictures are just of the engine bay with old engine and all of its unnecessary parts removed and of the motor assembly consisting of the Advance 9" FB1-4001 DC series motor, next is the motor ring, then the adapter plate, then the stock flywheel, and a new factory clutch. The old clutch had some chipped teeth and my mechanic got me a deal on a new one for $132 so we are starting with a new clutch. We had to put threads in the adapter plate in order to bolt it together. We still have the old transmission bolts to bolt the assembly together by connecting the adapter plate to the transmission, but we need the factory dowels off of the old motor to connect them. Next up is how to mount the assembly securely in the vehicle. We have a motor mount ring as you can see in the photos, and I think I will try to mount half of the ring to the axle mount and half of it to the frame on the firewall, but we have to fabricate this and I am not sure how to do so. I have heard that you need to use torque rods that have rubber bushings at the ends to prevent loud metal on metal vibrations from the electric motor spinning rapidly. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
I have the motor mounted from the back end of the motor, I used 2 pieces of angled steel for the upper and lower protruding metal parts, then welded some steel tubing between. Then I painted it all with black rustoleum and mounted it into place. I still have to install a torque rod from the motor to the frame and attach the axle mount. I cut a hole out of the trunk floor and have been welding together battery racks and boxes. I have decided to go with 15 8-volt batteries from U.S. battery for a total of 120 volts, and one 12 volt battery for the accessories. There will be 11 batteries in the trunk, then 4 for motor propulsion plus the one accessory battery for a total of 5 under the hood. I think I am about halfway done.
Here are some pictures of what I have accomplished so far. The spare tire well was cut out and replaced with a flat piece of sheetmetal and welded in place. Next it was painted and the battery racks were welded in place. I welded battery racks under the hood, but the one over the motor didn’t look right and took up too much room so I cut it out and made a new one facing the other way. This one can be removed by unbolting, not by having to use a torch so I can have access to remove the motor if needed. I also welded a torque rod into place that is bolted to two brackets, then one side welded to the motor ring, the other to the vehicle’s frame to prevent counter-torque spinning of the electric motor under great force. Now I am waiting on the 15 8 volt U.S. batteries to come in. Next is mounting the component board, then just wiring for the 120 volt propulsion system and the 12 volt system. If anyone has any comments don’t be afraid to write something.
Good to see another Minnesotan on this board…
I had heard that there was a place in Farmington where you could buy Optima / Interstate batteries that had cosmetic flaws in the cases for 50% off or more. I’ll be checking that out…
Who did your adapter plate?
Using a thrust bearing to take the loading of the clutch?
Hello fellow Minnesotan, thanks for your reply. Its good to know there’s someone else freezing it out up here with me. Let me know what you find out about those batteries. The only thing I would be cautious of is that all the batteries need to be the same exact model to work together in the electric vehicle, and they should be similar in age too, as they have a limited battery life of a few years. But that is definitely worth looking into. I ordered those US batteries, 15 8-volts, and it cost about $2000! KTA sent me the adapter plate, they had one of the other major electric vehicle parts stores do it, I will have to check and get back to you. But that plate was $825, I think EVA does it best, they just machine the center axis as that needs the most precision, then you can just get your tranny bellhousing pattern and have just about any local machinist cut it out and drill the bolt holes. I don’t think that part is very difficult, you just want it to look good and cover the transmission.
As far as taking the loading off of the clutch I didn’t add any bearings or anything, I just left that stuff stock.
I just went online to see if I could find reference for Interstate Battery and Farmington MN. Here is what I found;
Interstate Battery
Phone: 651-460-1230
22056 Chippendale Ave W, Farmington, MN 55024
So my question about the thrust bearing to take the Axial loading of the Clutch’s Pressure Plate when the clutch is depressed. Typically electric motors are not placed into any service where axial loading is significant.
I have some of my own machine shop equipment that I dabble with so I’ll be building my own adapter at this point. I’m still not sure about which way I’ll be going on this but at this point in time I’m still considering doing a conversion that uses an automatic transmission for a few different reasons;
- Familiar territory for my wife (who refuses to drive a std - regardless of the potential lack of a clutch)
- The all familiar “Park” position on the shifter.
- Simplicity in circuitry in that there would be no reversing of polarity required to go in reverse.
I’m pretty familiar with automatic transmissions (I’ve rebuilt a number) and know that I can reduce the amount of parasitic power loss dramatically since I can do away with the torque convertor. I’ve already got plans on how to keep the transmission pressurized to minimize clutch pack wear/heat on startup.
Anyway - sorry to jack your thread… I got a little carried away!!! 
Please do carry on and let me know should I be able to offer any assistance.
I live on the south side of Minneapolis not far from Minnehaha Falls…
When the vehicle runs on gasoline is there a thrust bearing to take up the axial loading?
If you have very precise machinery that can make the axis of your adapter precise down to .002" or .003" of an inch and you are experienced in doing so more power to you. But from what I have heard this is something that needs to be very precise or it won’t match up to the motor ring exactly and your motor shaft will be off center and ruin the electric motor or tranny or both. If you go with electric vehicles of america they can get you a clutchless setup so that you can use an automatic, then just put it into 3rd or 2nd gear and leave it there, and you won’t have to worry about shift points or any of that really technical stuff. Save your headaches for other projects in the conversion, there will be many of them. I work in south Mpls not far from Lake and Chicago, so I am not too far from there. Don’t worry about jacking my thread, nobody writes on it but me anyways hahaa :).
I will let you know how it goes, I am finishing mounting the controller, main contacter, potentiometer, and shunt onto my component board and mounting the power brake system so expect some pictures soon.
[QUOTE=Big-Foot;5888]I just went online to see if I could find reference for Interstate Battery and Farmington MN. Here is what I found;
Interstate Battery
Phone: 651-460-1230
22056 Chippendale Ave W, Farmington, MN 55024
So my question about the thrust bearing to take the Axial loading of the Clutch’s Pressure Plate when the clutch is depressed. Typically electric motors are not placed into any service where axial loading is significant.
I have some of my own machine shop equipment that I dabble with so I’ll be building my own adapter at this point. I’m still not sure about which way I’ll be going on this but at this point in time I’m still considering doing a conversion that uses an automatic transmission for a few different reasons;
- Familiar territory for my wife (who refuses to drive a std - regardless of the potential lack of a clutch)
- The all familiar “Park” position on the shifter.
- Simplicity in circuitry in that there would be no reversing of polarity required to go in reverse.
I’m pretty familiar with automatic transmissions (I’ve rebuilt a number) and know that I can reduce the amount of parasitic power loss dramatically since I can do away with the torque convertor. I’ve already got plans on how to keep the transmission pressurized to minimize clutch pack wear/heat on startup.
Anyway - sorry to jack your thread… I got a little carried away!!!
Please do carry on and let me know should I be able to offer any assistance.
I live on the south side of Minneapolis not far from Minnehaha Falls…[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=qsullivan;5891]When the vehicle runs on gasoline is there a thrust bearing to take up the axial loading?
[/quote]
Yes - There is a thrust bearing in one of the main bearing saddles for
the crankshaft.
In this picture - the thrust bearing is combined with the main bearing and occupies the far right hand position in the main bearing saddle;
Looking at the exposed end of your armature shaft - I think that you could rig and externally mounted thrust bearing at the rear of the motor if needed.
If you have very precise machinery that can make the axis of your adapter precise down to .002" or .003" of an inch and you are experienced in doing so more power to you. But from what I have heard this is something that needs to be very precise or it won’t match up to the motor ring exactly and your motor shaft will be off center and ruin the electric motor or tranny or both.
Shouldn’t be too much of a problem. I’ve had to dial in factory bellhousings due to the misalignments that they’ve had. Wrecks havoc with the rear main bearings and the input shaft bearings on the transmissions. Typically if you’re within .005" total - you’re okay. That said - I don’t think that electric motors generally have bearings as large and as tolerant of of any misalignment.
If you go with electric vehicles of america they can get you a clutchless setup so that you can use an automatic, then just put it into 3rd or 2nd gear and leave it there, and you won’t have to worry about shift points or any of that really technical stuff. Save your headaches for other projects in the conversion, there will be many of them.
Believe me - this GT40 project has had plenty of it’s challenges and I won’t embark fully on the EV project until this one is done… I’ll check out EV of America… I didn’t know that anyone was addressing the use of the automatic trans. I had planned on using 2nd and 4th gears in addition to reverse.
I work in south Mpls not far from Lake and Chicago, so I am not too far from there. Don’t worry about jacking my thread, nobody writes on it but me anyways hahaa :).
I will let you know how it goes, I am finishing mounting the controller, main contacter, potentiometer, and shunt onto my component board and mounting the power brake system so expect some pictures soon.
Okay - cool… So your commute would be just about at the limit of your battery charge in both directions. Or do you have a place where you can plug in at work?
[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIpce-3hTQ&feature=channel_page”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEIpce-3hTQ&feature=channel_page[/ame]
[ame=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqj5WVtwJKo”]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqj5WVtwJKo[/ame]
Videos of my electric car in action, 2 youtube videos. Better quality ones will be on the way. I finally got it running, it is awesome to drive. I didn’t know what to expect but it is very quiet, just a quiet whine of the controller when you begin to move then a quiet winding of the motor when you get up to speed. The road noise is louder than the motor. As for the gears I am glad I have this in a manual transmission vehicle because I will need all five gears. I didn’t have the ammeter hooked up so I couldn’t see how many amps it was drawing but that will be interesting to find out. The only problem I have now is the charger doesn’t work. As far as the electric parts I just have to do the charger and gauges, and adjust the power brake vacuum system to give it a little more boost, the brakes need more power with all that extra weight. Right now its at 8 inches of pressure, I think it should be at about 14-17 inches. However this might draw more power from the batteries so I will have to do some experimenting to see at what level I can set it on but still have safe, fast braking when needed.
Randy- there are lots of outlets in the parking ramp at work, I think I will try to use them. My commute will be 25 miles to work, 9 hours charging at 110 VAC, then 25 miles back. With 15 8-volt batteries creating 120 VDC I think this is very feasible.
Outstanding!!!
I’m glad you made the 2nd video without the music as I really wanted to hear what the whole thing sounded like…
RE: Vacuum boost - I’ve found generally speaking the 10" of vacuum is about the lower limit if you don’t press the brake pedal on/off/on too much. Remember that the vacuum doesn’t really take any more once pressed to maintain the boost and that the booster chamber itself stores up enough charge for multiple events…
I’ve had a lot of medical problems as of late so I have not been able to get out to my shop much. Only a couple hours a week… Hence the GT40 progress is very slow right now. ((sigh))…
Looking forward to hearing more!!!
I just got back from vacation today and found that my charger was waiting for me. I carefully wired it up (so as not to blow a fuse like I did the first time) and it worked. 
This made me about as happy as my first run driving this car. The only problem I have now is the ammeter isn’t working correctly. I was driving it highway speeds and the needle would move a little when I accelerated but it wouldn’t get past 50-60 amps. From what I have heard I think it should be at least 200-300 amps going highway speeds, so unless I have the most efficient electric vehicle ever the gauge isn’t getting the correct information, so I have to figure out what is going on with that wiring. I still have to wire the voltmeter and battery indicator, I hope these don’t do the same thing. We are going to try using air springs for $80 from ebay instead of expensive replacement springs, I will keep you all posted on that project.
Check for loose connections. including the shunt.
I have been driving my car around, it will go about 30 miles on a charge. I drove it 23 miles to work, plugged it in the parking ramp, worked 8 hours, then came out to a fully charged electric car, and drove it home. I have found that range and speed have an inverse relationship. It is fast, it will break the tires loose if you put the pedal down and will go at least 80 mph, but that kills the range, if you go slow it will go a lot further. If I went 35 miles an hour I think I could go at least 60 miles but that is pretty slow. I put the electric emblem on my trunk right under the Saturn logo. Also I put ELECTRIC in white lettering on the top of the back window, washed and waxed it, see the pictures. When I am driving my full range I accelerate slowly so that I know I will get there and back using minimal amps, but people drive like impatient jerks around here. However I also feel like now that I am advertising my vehicle is electric I have a reputation to uphold that electric vehicles are not the slow, gutless vehicles they used to be. I got the ammeter working, my wiring diagram said to connect both shunts to the ammeter somehow, but I took off the small shunt wires and it works now, but that means my accessory power use isn’t being displayed. My brakes weren’t powerful enough so I pumped up the switch to the brakes to 22 inches of vacuum. It brakes great now but the electric vacuum pump is running almost constantly. I will have to turn it down now. My speedometer and odometer still aren’t wired yet. I used GPS to find out how fast I was going and at 60 mph my vehicle uses about 180-200 amps in 3rd gear. That is about the fastest I go, if I have to go faster I will shift up and then the amps go up significantly from there. This electric vehicle has been very well received, everyone I know is very impressed. I have a few more things to do on it, still need a stronger rear suspension, wire gauges, install and wire the heater relay and core.
The electric car that I put over $11,000 and over 350 hours of hard labor into was totaled by an unlicensed, uninsured driver who failed to yield at a stop sign and drove his SUV right into me. This was 2 weeks ago and this has been two weeks of hell for me. Anyone know where I can get an estimate on an electric car? Any resources would be greatly appreciated, as I am pursuing a case in small claims court.
oh damn that’s sucks , hope your ok. on the estimate any auto shop would give a repair estimate if they do framework , because their isn’t any difference outside of what kind and how much batteries would be if you had some up there that were damaged. but dont think small claims maximum wouldn’t be near. i think our states bout 1500 max.
I have been building a second electric vehicle, it is a silver 2002 Saturn sc2. The body looks much better, but the conversion has been almost identical to the 1996 Saturn sc2. All I have left to do is to finish the wiring. I think I only have a couple wires left to the potentiometer and to the keyswitch. Last time I just cut off all of the factory wires, But this time I was smart enough to just unplug and label all the wiring harnesses. In the car crash I was in there were two batteries that were just demolished beyond recognition and then three more with battery terminals broken off so they needed to be replaced. I guess the us battery 8 volt gchc’s are special order and it’s gonna be a while before I get them. But I still have nine good batteries so with those I’m hoping for an 18-20 mile range highway, maybe 30 city but we will see. The controller and motor got sprayed with sulfuric acid from the crash and I had to repaint them. I will have photos up shortly but I’m sending this from an iPhone and I don’t think it will let me paste photos in.
Most of the conversion from removing the old parts to welding in metal, installing components, motor, batteries.
This is the car in its almost completed state.
Update: I drove the Saturn for 3 years on those lead acid batteries, through Minnesota winters, hot summers, and they finally died.
I’ve been building a LiFePO4 battery pack, ~115V nominal, ~130 Vmax, should be about 800 lbs lighter, similar current performance, but less range. There are 5 cells in parallel and 36 in series. Each cell is 3.2 Vnom, 3.6 Vmax. I’ve upgraded chargers from the Zivan to a 2 kW Manzanita Micro with an adjustable current knob (potentiometer).
The battery box isn’t the prettiest box ever, it’s made from scrap PVC sheets I had. The duct tape is temporary and will NOT be there once all of the structural brackets are in place.