Okay, so I’m on algorithm 24. However when I attempt to do the three second on battery it immediately triggers the red light warning light. I have to disconnect for it to go away. No matter what I do during the three second connection it triggers the red light to come on within 2-3 seconds after connecting positive.
With the Delta Q red warning me out before I can switch to algorithm 32, could it be firmware locked?
If that’s the case.. might need to grab that Delta Q from the E4… hmmm.
Highly unlikely. The charge profile can’t really be “locked on” so to speak. The only way that could be sort of accomplished that I know of is to only have that one profile on the charger. AFAIK, GEM always shipped these chargers from the factory with multiple profiles installed that way the dealers could offer and install various levels of battery packs to the customer. I’ve only seen OEM chargers that are set up that way on a few golf carts. IIRC it was some EZ-Go 48v carts w/ the only profile on the charger was for the Trojan 130XL FLA.
The tappy-tap-tap method sucks. It’s a PITA and the chargers don’t always go by the 3 second thing, sometimes they count down fast, sometimes slow. Something that some people have found success with is to try taking a simple single pole residential light switch (like 75 cents at the hardware store) and two pieces of scrap wire (12 gauge should be fine, probably even 14 will work since you aren’t drawing any amperage) and wire the switch in between the pack + battery terminal and the wire you just took off. That way you can just flip the switch on and off to simulate tapping the lead on/off the + terminal.
If that fails, and you don’t mind shipping the charger to me, I can set it for you easily since I have a DQ programmer, I can see everything that is installed on it and add, remove profiles and set the default profile. No charge for you, just cover shipping costs.
If you haven’t already, watch this video - it may help
@JarJarJava . Just curious now that I’m thinking about it. Couldn’t I technically use the master kill switch and do the method as if I was disconnecting and reconnecting battery? (I tried it as well and it did the exact same thing as the battery method). It would show the algorithm, but when I go to change it, it shows the red light.
I will try it a few more times. If I still can’t get it to work I may look into shipping her out your way. I don’t want to (undercharge?) these new batteries. Thank you for the offer!
The back of my head says “Other JarJar, I don’t think that will work” But thinking about your idea, may have made me remember something about the tappy-tap-tap method…
It’s been 5+ years since I bought the QuiQ programmer and never used the tappy-tap-tap since.
The programmer hooks to the + & - output of the charger, but done in a gem, the PSDM can’t be in the circuit, can’t just clip on at the battery terminals. The PSDM interferes with the communication between the charger and the programmer.
The DQ instructions use a circuit of the charger connected directly to the battery pack. In the GEM the PSDM has a finger in there. I can’t quite remember if you have to do the taps at a different location or disconnect the PSDM…
…BRB… need to see if I can find a post or two to confirm or refute.
Just found these two sets of instructions from Rodney. You may have to do it a little bit differently than the instructions from DQ due to the way the GEM is wired.
Updated (?) from 2019:
Original from 2015:
I just only skimmed them, but It looks like Rodney is recommending a slightly different method and hook up.
1 Like
Just for info- the DQ in your '15 is different than your '10.
The '15 has a 12vdc Down Converter tucked in there (aka the DQ-DCI (DC Internal)).. This is needed to power the 12v accessories and some of the subsystems your car needs to turn on.
The '10 car has an external DC Converter to handle the 12v needs.
So, no. Your other charger will not directly work in this car (unless you swap the DC Converter and pigtail too)
I believe it is the Converter (actually its capacitors) hooked into the 72v side. You can hear them charge up (pop/sizzle the contacts) when you throw the MDS to ON. That charged caps mess with the timing when doing the TAP profile change method on a DQ-DCI.
I found the DC Board even messes with the comms when hooking the interface to change the profile with the very hardware/software provided by DQ. I have had to pop the lid and disconnect the DC board before it would talk to the laptop.
I think DQ needs to reflect this in their programming instructions.
1 Like
Yea definitely sounds like something that should be in a user manual lol. Noted- I will not switch to the E4 battery charger. Thank you for saving me the time on that switch!
This gives me hope! Now I just need to find a push button switch. Off to the auto store tomorrow! Fingers crossed this works 
. Thank you for the reestablished hope!
Although some have used the master switch to change profiles, I would not. That switch is prone to failure. As are other components that won’t like being abused in that manner. Find where B+ goes to the charger and send Morse code from there. Imo
Interesting… Good info, likely accurate for the OEM GEMs. So, your description doesn’t match my experience with the DCI charger that my 2010 had, but its possible that charger may have not originally been from the GEM universe and/or the install / wiring was no longer he same as other GEMs. Looking way back at the beginning of this thread, you can see where I posted I was curious why CleanMD’s 2010 had an external DC-DC rather than the DCI charger as on my 2010, A configuration that I thought began with the 2010 models. As you pointed out, the GEM DCI charger didn’t come on line until slightly later.
Everything you just described for the DCI chargers, I have never needed to do. All I had to do was drop the dash and unbolt the wiring at the lugs on the PCM and separate out the charger B+ B- output leads and clip the programmer leads directly to them. Completely eliminating any GEM electronics, safeties, switches etc from the temporary circuit. I may have also unplugged the DCI out connector from the GEM harness, effectively isolating the charger. But I don’t recall that part exactly if I did or not. I don’t remember having any issues communicating between the programmer and the DCI charger.
Dave acquired this particular 2010 around 2014 I think (I wasn’t on here then), and converted it lithium with an enormous Chevy VOLT pack he assembled from 3 or 4 modules and somehow shoe horned this 6-1/2 foot long, 350+lb, 88V+, 150KWh monstrosity into the tray under the vehicle between the frame rails. That may very well have been the first lithium modified GEM or certainly one of the earliest, so I guess it stands to reason that maybe the original charger and external DC-DC were changed out too. I don’t recall if it was even a GEM specific DQ-DCI (if they existed) or not. I bought it off Dave when he ran out of garage / shop space in winter 2019.
Okay, I used the second method with the Master disconnect switch and it worked. I am now on algorithm 32. However, while charging I noticed it got a battery up to 16.2 v while on the green blinking charging setting (not sure what stage that is). Just before I was going to disconnect charging because I did not want the battery to explode, the charger stopped and went to red warning blinking. So, now I’m at another standstill lol…
But, it does now read the correct battery level on the dash, so that’s a bonus.
Ohhh, that’s not good… you may be screwed … That eLXD may not have been put away right and it’s looking like some stuff may just have gone tits up. Depending on how badly they blotched the taking it out of service and what happened when they hurled it into mothballs without a check sheet, and not even a second glance afterwards, it could mean money or chasing gremlins, or, both… Can you still return the batteries? Or should we move them over to the e4 and start taking it out of layup and see how it faired?
Ok, well, that’s cool. Kind of like when everyone has to do a blind grab of MRE packs and you ended up with not only the one that has the jalapeno cheese but you also somehow managed to get one of the two that comes with a full size candy bar.
Depending on what we find on the e4, we will see if the LT got the omelet with ham. Hopefully not because he’ll just pull rank to force trade that horrid one for something decent.
Run the car as-is and see if that high charge happens again.
It may have decided to do an equalize cycle.
When you installed these batteries, did you attach the Temperature Sensor? (It looks like a cable lug with 2 small wires attached).
1 Like
So, I’m just fucking with you man.
What you saw and the error light on the charger doesn’t mean a whole lot yet.
Knowing what stage it was in would have helped,
Did you record the blink code on the error light and check what it means?
Which battery in the series was it? And what kind of meter (brand and model #) were you using and how was it hooked up when you saw it read 16v? Also, how long did you observe it at 16v?
And, here’s the $50,000 question,… How charged were the batteries when you imitated the profile 32 charge cycle? If the batteries had finished on the GEL cycle previously and then just sat and the surface charge cooled off before you started the #32 charge, that battery was at like 95% as far as the charger was conccerned, so a spike in voltage when starting a charge on a mostly full FLA is not uncommon.
So do this:
- Go RTFM on how to determine what step the charger is on and how to read the blink codes.
- Go drive around. Put a few miles on the GEM, Put your foot in it too. Run the pack down to 60-70%. Then park it and leave it for a few hours for the batteries to cool off. Then come back after that couple hour pause, then plug the charger in and leave it.
- Come back 6-8 hours later and see what the display on the DQ shows. If it’s completed the charge or errored again.
PS: Lead-Acid batteries don’t explode. They just fizzle and “boil” and some acid comes out the overflow or cap seals. A 12v, and deep cycle no less, getting hit with 2 volts over the bulk charge rate finish voltage which is 14v-something is kind of like a surprise tickling. It’s not even a noogie and definitely not an atomic weggie.and no way even remotely like that KGB slap to the head that knocks you out cold and locks your nerves / muscles up so it paralyzes you in that position you got slapped in for like 20 minutes. That 16v spike is actually often used and sustained, it causes extra heat and more violent fracturing of the water component into hydrogen and oxygen right at the surface of the plates with the intent, often succeeding, to crack the sulfide oxidation that forms on the surface of the plates when the battery is used - it forms at every voltage state less than 100% charged. which these batteries have experienced a few times now being run on the gel profile. This is all normal for a FLA. That’s just how they work.
you on the money with the MRE‘s! Yea, I took all the batteries out and decided to give them away to a good home. Can’t be having these subpar 12v batteries just laying around.
Yes I installed this onto the battery as well.