I started this in the “welcome” thread, but it needs it’s own topic I think, so people can see it. I’m totally new to GEM and this forum. I’ve been reading threads here for hours now, and honestly it’s a little intimidating. You people are really, really smart! Anyway, I got a 2013 GEM utility truck damn cheap, it came with 2-year old “The Starting Line” batteries, which, when you do a search on the model numbers, come up as the same thing as Duracell deep cycle. I have a vague history of this truck, but I don’t know what batteries it came with originally, and when they were changed (it happened twice - that I know) I’m very sure nobody knew anything about changing the charging profile. I’m guessing “Starting Line” was a generic sold by Sam’s Club or something, and they probably ARE Duracells, which I’ve heard are not terrible. I’d like to salvage these batteries for a while before doing a Lithium conversion. I did that with a RoyPow pack on my EZGO golf cart and it went really well - that’s the long term on this thing. But reading the threads - wow, you almost have to have a degree in electrical engineering to understand you guys! So, for now, help with the profile? I’m getting about 8 miles (with really good performance) and then the dreaded flashing turtle, but SOC says 54% still. This is frustrating, I’m sure you can relate. Help?
Welcome to the group. Don’t be afraid to ask Questions.
Here is where I would go.
- Identify what profile you are running on the charger.
- find out what profiles are loaded in your charger.
- If needed, change to a more suitable profile(hopefully after two years the pack is not cooked)
- charge the pack.
- note the charged up “Hot” voltage, and then wait a while and then again the finished “resting” voltage of each battery. (I find it helps if I draw a layout picture and note the readings by each battery).
- If needed- balance the pack by individually charging the low batteries with a 12v car charger. Look for odd aftermarket wires where a lazy tech stuck on a quick tap for 12v accessory.
- Do a load test of each battery and see how fast each one falls off (looking for a bad battery)
- Reset your SOC when pack is full.
Report back your findings.
What is the model number on the battery? And what is the model number of what appears to be the similar Duracell?
Is it a FLA, AGM or gel?
Without all of that, you are just guessing at a charge profile. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Pick the wrong one, roast your batteries.
Most Duracell batteries are made by East Penn Deka, so cross referencing them is easy at that point
Okay, just checked the current profile, it appears to me that its set on #15, which I’m guessing is completely wrong.
Shrug.
Maybe. What type of batteries?
Yeah, thanks, I saw your note on the other thread that Duracell is made by Penn Deka, thanks for that. I didn’t do the search myself, my nephew (electrical engineer) did. I’m clueless as to how to figure out what these are. My nephew says the model numbers correspond to this Duracell, which is an AGM:
I think I need to start by changing the algorithm. Any advice on which one to pick? #15 is certainly wrong, and is probably the problem.
Okay, this gets worse. They are black. and the casing does not have the same texture as the Duracell.
So, if it’s a “31” what does that mean? Profile 31? It’s not offered on the DQ. Profile 32? Does close count? Is this horseshoes or hand grenades?
@JarJarJava I have to keep editing this reply, as I’m new and am not allowed any more replies for 6 hours (who knew?)
Here’s the battery top:
@AssyRequired Yeah, I see 15 as a temp setting. Volt test on all the batteries turned out good - all 12v. Go to 14? Pretty sure based on the model starting with “AGM” these are AGM batteries. And I saw somewhere somebody came up with a better way to change the profile than what is in the DQ manual. @houseboat or someone? Help with that?
Searching @Old_Houseboater and he says the AGM profile is 32, which I think I have. Someone had same problem as me - AGM batteries set on Gel profile. Don’t know if changing it worked. Still looking for easiest way to change profile…
ARRGH. Nervous and confused. @JarJarJava you say #13, an old post from @Old_Houseboater says 32 for AGM. I don’t know what to do…
Next question, assuming I get some consensus on what profile to choose, where do I do the disconnect for reprogramming? It says positive lead - that goes to one of the batteries, so I’m assuming do it at the battery? How can you manipulate this and watch the flashed on the charger at the same time? Jumper cables? Kidding, not kidding.
Okay, I’m going for 32. Wish me luck. BTW - I’m an ■■■■■. It was in #14, not #15, but that’s still probably my problem. If the batteries aren’t toast from 2 years of this, I may be in luck. DQ will not stay in #15, as I learned from reading more carefully. You guys have been great, I’ll let you know how it works out.
Well, so far using jumper cables I have been able to get the charger into programing mode several times, but every time I try to advance I get the dreaded flashing red light. It seems I’m not good at timing four (or slightly less, as @Old_Houseboater says). I’m going to try a remote starter switch, less sparks - I am scaring the poop out of my dog!
FOLLOWUP: First, you guys are awesome and this is a great forum! Second, I got it re-programmed to #32 algorithm. Re-set the trip meter, we’ll see what happens, I’m assuming it will take a few charging cycles to make much difference. If I can get 15 miles, I’ll be more than happy - it flies up hills at near 25, and runs 25 all the time on the flats, which is plenty fast for what I’m doing with it. I know I could make it faster, but I really don’t need or want to. I’m sure I’ll have more questions, but for now… I’M GOING FOR A RIDE! Thanks again!!
@Old_Houseboater I found your instructions on another thread, and I used @AssyRequired 's technique. I got it set to #32 - which is what you said for AGM. BUT, so far no improvement, in fact I only got 4 miles and got the turtle even with 70% battery showing. Maybe needs a few cycles, or should I put it on #13?
Are you positive they are AGM? Flooded Deka batteries can look like AGM because of the screw caps on the cells
That an 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee. A very very small one.
Assuming you have a gem software DQ:
@AssyRequired lmk if this is the current gem chart, I’m responding on my phone right now.
Yeah- I’m not sure what charger that Duracell profile page was referring to.
That ain’t a group 34 battery Bucky… It’s a 31. It’s in the name…
Group 31 is the physical size of the battery. Its standardized across all manufacturers
Can you post some pictures of the whole top, the labels and any embossed numerical codes on the side of the battery?
Looks like agm to me. Should really get your charger off 15 tho. I remember that being a temp setting. Listed as Recovery only.
See if you can cycle it around to 32. Have you come across the various methods to change the settings?
14 is Gel. Use FLA for AGM if no AGM profiles installed. Gel will ruin non gel batteries. Can’t remember if 32 is AGM.
Seeing the newest edit. I agree with @AssyRequired those are group 31 AGM.
I’d listen to Rodney, personally. Take #32
Whoops! My bad- I spaced. Yes 32 is AGM.
I’ll go back and edit so not to run others astray!
Thanks for the backup jrjava.
As to how to do the change-
I just use the main disconnect breaker and flip that on and off. It involves laying on my side and looking up between my tire and fender to see the charger panel(I have hard doors so I have to have the door open too).
I run a short 120v cord out of the nose of the car to a switchable power strip to cycle the 120VAC on and off. This only works if the car is fairly charged up. Otherwise the load may be too much for the power strip.
31 is the case size, If your charger doesn’t have an AGM setting use 13. If you have a choice of AGM settings use the one that is specified for 105 AH
Rodney
AKA Old Houseboater
To prepare to change the algorithm on a Delta Q on most GEM cars you will need 2 pieces of insulated electrical wire about 6 feet long connected to a momentary pushbutton switch.
The reason for this is that you will be flat on your back where you can see the indicator lights on the DQ while changing the setting.
Let’s get started.
Shut the main switch off.
Disconnect the red wire coming from the charger at the B+ (battery plus) post.
Connect one of your pushbutton wires to the post and position the other end under the cart in a comfortable position.
Connect the other wire to the charger red wire…
Turn on the main switch.
THE HARDEST PART OF THE PROCEDURE IS GETTING THE CHARGER IN SETUP MODE.
Get under the cart in a comfortable position where you can plug and unplug the charger.
Reach up and plug in the charger. The indicator will flash the current code for 11 seconds in yellow then time out and flash red.
Unplug the charger for 15+ seconds to let it reset.
WE”RE READY TO GO
Plug the charger in and push the button for a bit less than one second (count 1-1000) ¾ of a second is too short, more than a second is too long. If it continues to flash the algorithm for more than 11 seconds YOU’RE IN!!!. If it red lights, you have to start over.
When you’re in, you have 2 minutes to tap the button for a bit less than 4 secounds, count 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, 4-unh. Under 3 seconds is too short, over 4 seconds is too long. If you got It. it will flash the new algorithm. If you red light, start over.
Repeat until you reach your desired algorithm. THEN
Hold the button down for 10 seconds, or until you hear the charger click indicating your new setting is stored.
Unplug the charger and shut off the main switch. Remove your setup wiring and connect the red charger wire to the post.
YOU’RE DONE!!!
Finally, I can reply. Set charger to profile #32. Batteries were reading 94%, went for a ride and got the turtle after 4 miles. Just need to cycle a few times? Anyway, this is worse than before, so just hoping. If things don’t improve will change to #13. But 2 years of being on the wrong profile might have ruined my batts. If so, going to Lithium, but need a LOT of advice on THAT upgrade…
Probable have, as per @Old_Houseboater .
Use agm setting if available if confirmed agm or #13 second choice. Anything but a gel setting.
Check with a lead expert on whether a recovery profile might help.