2007 GEM - Cant get it to charge!

Hey all - I am a brand new owner of a nice 2007 GEM e2. Brought it home a couple of days ago and drove it around the neighborhood, plugged it in overnight. The next day I got about 2 miles down the road before it went into slow mode, and I had to limp all the way home.

Investigating… Noted that the charger would cycle on just like it should, with all lights blinking, and then getting the AC light and the #1 light. After a couple of hours I was getting a 4-blink red error code, which supposedly means that it failed to start charging. I found that the Delta Q Quiq charger was on algorithm 126, and that the previous owner had changed the batteries from Fullriver Gel’s to Delkor Flooded DC-31’s without changing the algorithm, so I went ahead and switched it to algo 13.

Now… When I plug it in, I get the LED cycling, and then the AC light comes on, but that is all. No charging whatsoever, no error codes… It just sits there with the AC light on.

Any Ideas on what to check? I am still at about 72 volts at the controller, batteries all test at about 12.3-12.4 volts (unloaded).

Thanks in advance to all of you rock star mechanics out there. I am blown away at the level of knowledge in this forum.

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Yeah- 126 looks like the wrong profile. Hopefully it wasn’t doing that very long.

Odd how it doesn’t seem to like 13. I wonder if a bum program file was loaded in there?
What other profiles did you see in there? Maybe we can find something else close just to check? Then maybe find someone that can reload the profiles again?

Maybe it just likes where your batteries are at right now? Run the car around the block and plug it in again(still on 13). (unless your blocks are more than two miles around).

Four flashes- Maybe you have a different(more updated) error/flash code list. Let me poke around for something newer? It sounds like your charger might be a newer one(guessing)?

Mine flash code list says:

XXXX - Four Red Flashes
Check Battery - This fault indicates the battery pack could not be trickle charged up to the minimum level required for the normal charge cycle to be started.
Check that none of the battery pack connections between modules are reversed or incorrectly connected. Check that one or more cells in the battery are not shorted. Confirm that the nominal battery pack voltage is the same as the battery charger voltage. Try the charger on a good battery. If this fault occurs the battery pack is likely in poor condition. Try to recover the pack with a charger that can charge the individual batteries – such as an automotive charger. Be sure to set this charger to the appropriate voltage – 6V per 6V battery, 12V per 12V string/battery.

This makes sense as it was probably trying to charge the batteries up to a level they didn’t want to go anymore. Charger more/less timed out.

#AssyRequired - thanks for this. I am actually wondering if it is a bad charging relay? There are two cube relays mounted to the passenger side firewall under the dash… Not sure if one of these has to pull in to get it to start charging? Neither seems to click when I plug it in…

Nope- leave those alone. They are part of the e-brake/interlock/screaming beeper warning system (if I remember right). Totally separate from the charge interlock system.

You haven’t done anything except change the profile, so the car should be fine.

Are you near the car?
Do you get the charging light on the dash pod?
If charger unplugged(light should go out), Does car still go?

Confirm that you landed on 13.

My information does not include 126 as a Gem profile. I did find it as a Polaris AGM .
My information is out of date with no Gem AGM profiles.
I don’t know what sw or profiles are in a 2007, if someone can help me out.

Error 4 is an ac error in Gem DQ’s.

Someone may need to look at the sw to see what charger you have, unless it is an ac problem. Do you have a heavy short cord in a good outlet?

#AssyRequired - Got it - I will leave those relays alone

I am near the car
When I plug it in, I get a click, and on the dash pod I get the yellow cord and all bars of the battery status light up for about 40 seconds. Then the battery status lights go out, and I am left with a dim yellow cord. If I unplug the cord within that 40 seconds, after a few seconds all lights go out. If it is after the 40 seconds - the dim yellow cord goes out.

Confirmed I am on 13

#Inwo - To be clear, I am no longer getting error 4 - that was only when it was on profile 126. I called the dealership that last serviced it, and they confirmed that they set it to 126, although when I went to change it, it would only cycle through the standard Gem profiles of 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 32. So I am assuming they have some kind of special programming module that lets them load different profiles onto the charger. But when doing the positive terminal advance method, it only seems to cycle through the standard profiles.

It is a heavy cord - probably 20’ long, but it is 12AWG, so seems like it should be ok?

Thanks so much for your help guys, I am really hoping the 6 month old batteries are not dead… They all seem to be pretty close to the same (unloaded) charge, but maybe my next step should be to try to load them and find a bad one?

I had a tough time finding it too! That’s why I suspect it is some sort of weird dealer installed replacement. (in which case I’m surprised it had a 13).

My 09 came with these programmed in(before I sent it to you)
5, 6, 7, 8,11, 27, 42, and 43

I happened to have this in my DQ folder. Not sure where I got it. (Horrible quality jpg)

It shows 126 down in the Fullriver row.
Note that this list does not have a 13. I’m hoping he finds a 5, maybe a 62?

I was also confused at finding conflicting 4 flash explanations. and was looking at the AC undervolt. It didn’t make sense.

And then I find this from a recent doc I grabbed from DQ
(PN: 710-0171 Rev 1 Date: 12/09/2014)

I just picked the reality in which he appears to be existing as it fit his description best.
Perhaps his Spock has a goatee?

I don’t believe that’s possible. Maybe I’ll learn something new.
It is possible that they changed sw to make 126 work and the other ones will no longer function.
In that case the only solution is to get it back to 126 which seems fine for flooded or agm.
Are you near someone who can check sw and profiles?

Interesting… So you can’t get circle back to 126?

What would it take for you to run the car(or just the charger) back to the dealer for them to program the correct profile into the charger for you?

The sw change came to mind with error 4. If ac power was good, it’s the generic #4 fault. Meaning someone changed to generic sw.
I know from experience that the standard gem profiles will not work other than with gem specific sw.
They should have removed them as I do.

No idea how 126 could disappear from the line up.

LOL. OK - that Spok reference took me a minute to understand.

I guess I should try again to go back to 126 - I just stopped when I got to 13 because I have flooded batteries now. Do I need to go to something else? 126 was not working…

I am relatively confident that this is a standard GEM charger, and the dealer had some special way to add 126 to it because they were installing Fullriver AGM batteries (that was in 2017)…

#Inwo - are you thinking the 4 flashes might have meant something else because there was a non-standard program loaded?

At this point, I have flooded batteries, I am on profile 13, and I only get a AC light to show up on the charger. But I do hear a little click when I plug it in…

I am getting 73 volts at the main contactor, and I just took it for a spin around the block - runs perfectly… But another 2 miles and the it will be dead because the batteries are only at about 12.3 volts each…

Heh, So Spock wasn’t too far out there? Just having fun.

Ok, you ran it around the block, plugged it in and the charger goes through a little bootup/self check sequence, then clicks. Still nothing else on the panel except the AC light?

  1. Verify that the volts aren’t climbing by checking a battery. (I doubt it, but just something I would do.)

  2. Go to Profile 14 just to check if it acts different. (Just for test purposes)

  3. scan through to see if 126 shows up again.

  4. Go back to 13 and try it again. Maybe it had a problem locking in?

On it - this is going to take me a little time…

I understand that 126 was working. I would put it back.
There was an error, but that could have been a battery or wiring issue.

@inwo - 126 was not working. I have not been able to charge the batteries, and I suspect that is what prompted the previous owner to sell it. I think they switched from AGM to Flooded, and were never able to charge the batteries either.

OK - volts are not climbing - I actually had it in the charger all last night and the volts on each battery were the same

Profile 14 - same issue
Profile 32 - Same issue
Back to 13 - Same issue
Back to 126 - Now I get the AC light and the #1 light… I suspect I will get the four flashes in a couple of hours

This time I was more careful to verify the programs that have been loaded… I have 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 32, and 126.

I suspect that charger is working but doesn’t like the batteries, or connections. Tight and bright.

  1. Have someone test the charger.
  2. Charge your batteries and test under load. If ok see what range you get.

Any 12v charger will work. Leave it on until current drops to the same low level on each. Or let a smart charger finish on each. Takes a while this way, but it’s something you can do yourself.

Got it - I have an old car battery charger that I will hook up to each battery and give it a try. Seems maddening that the charger is so darned particular about the batteries!

I could be wrong. :wink:
But, it’s a good thing. Dq is smarter than most users. Certainly smarter than me.
It does everything it can to keep us from ruining good batteries. When all we want is a charger that will make the car run. Even if it means blowing up the weak one. :grin:

Let each one fully charge, even if some take longer than others. Voltage is an indication of soc, but only on known good batteries. Current will drop as battery fills. If you charger has an ammeters it’s best.

Sorry- had to step out.
Good to see you got back into 126.
Weird that the others are not active. Must be something with the way they loaded 126.
Incomplete profiles or corrupted them in some way.

Now that it is working, monitor your batteries and see what this profile is doing to them. I bet it is charging but the 126 profile is expecting something that the wet cells cannot do at the top and it is shutting down. You see it as not charging but it is just not finishing.
The good news is that there are a few on this list with the ability to load new profiles more suited to what you need.
Where are you located?

The bad news is that your 6mo old batteries may be damaged since it currently only has a 2 mi range.

When charging-
Do you hear alot of bubbles?
Are they getting warm?
Have you checked the water?

If it is charging then I’d say run it through a cycle and see where they end up. Then put your car charger on each one and see if it will top them off a bit more.

Then prepare for a load test.
Write down the start volts of each battery. You may just have one going bad. I like to draw a map of the layout to keep track.

You can either use a big load tester or do a brake stand test. Load test with your meter connected and see how fast they fall.

Brake load test - (Snip From Rodney)
1 connect your meter to a battery
2 hold the brake down hard
3 hit and hold the accelerator for 2 seconds
4 note the reading
5 repeat on the rest of the batteries
A punk battery will show up

Note that when you test this way you are loading up all the batteries every time you test one. The starting V is not as important during the sequence as they will be going down a little each test(this is why you note all of them first). Good batteries won’t drop all that much. Look for one that falls on it’s face pretty fast.

Report back your findings.