# \$1500 EnerDel li-ion pack

EnerDel HEV Battery Pack Specs
Posted by Lyle under Battery , PHEV
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Tuesday’s announcement by EnerDel of a market-ready production lithium-ion battery pack for hybrid electric cars (HEV) was missing some important information, the specs.

Mr. Charles Gassenheimer, Ener1’s Vice-Chairman was kind enough to provide us with those all-important details:

1 pack:

600 watt hours
120 volts
\$1500 per pack

There you have it.

So what can you do with one or more of these puppies?

600 watt/hrs seems awfully low. How does Lithium Ion compare power-wise to lead acid? IOW, I am currently looking at 12 Trojan 1275s for my 144vdc system. They are rated at 150amp/hrs times 144 volts = 21.6 kw/hrs. Is this right? So 21600 watts divided by EnerDel’s advertised 600 watt/hrs tells me I need 36 of their battery packs?? Times \$1500? That’s \$54,000!

Please tell me my calculations are wrong! Somebody explain the errors of my ways to me! Are Lithium batteries rated differently?

I need a range of 50-60 miles in a car that weighs 3000 lbs with the ICE installed. How many Enerdel packs would I need?

Thanks
Rick

they’re too expensive… if you want lithium batteries, have a look at the next thread in this forum, we’re considering a group order of lithium ion (or polymer)

[QUOTE=no3rdseat;1027]600 watt/hrs seems awfully low. How does Lithium Ion compare power-wise to lead acid? IOW, I am currently looking at 12 Trojan 1275s for my 144vdc system. They are rated at 150amp/hrs times 144 volts = 21.6 kw/hrs. Is this right? So 21600 watts divided by EnerDel’s advertised 600 watt/hrs tells me I need 36 of their battery packs?? Times \$1500? That’s \$54,000!

Please tell me my calculations are wrong! Somebody explain the errors of my ways to me! Are Lithium batteries rated differently?

I need a range of 50-60 miles in a car that weighs 3000 lbs with the ICE installed. How many Enerdel packs would I need?

Thanks
Rick[/QUOTE]

I don’t think that you will get that kind of range with the Trojans. I have those (120V pack), and they are great for what they are, but I only get 25 miles tops (with substantial hills, though). My car weighs about the same as yours.

no3rdseat - follow the original link and read through the comments. Apparently there is confusion over the power the battery makes, if it could be a typo, and what the power rating means in the first place -

# Dave G Says:

October 11th, 2007 at 8:05 pm Quote

Don’t think of taking the 600 watt/hours and trying to scale it up for the Volt. It’s a completely different type of battery.

Here is a snippet from Denise Gray (GM’s battery Guru) from her recent testimony before the U.S. government.

There are really two types of batteries that we require. The one most people are familiar with is called “charge depletion.” Think of this as a flashlight battery that depletes it energy with use, and then is either disposed of or recharged. It is the rechargeable version of this battery that we are interested in for plug-in hybrids. This is a new area of focus for USABC.

In addition to charge depletion, there is another type of battery known as “charge sustaining.” These batteries are designed to accept and delivery power while maintaining a constant state of charge – they never deplete. These charge sustaining batteries are in use in hybrid vehicles on the road today, such as our Chevy Malibu and Saturn Aura hybrids. They store up the high power energy captured during braking and reapply that energy to help the vehicle accelerate.

The EnerDel battery being discussed here is the charge sustaining type for HEVs. These batteries are constantly charging / discharging, so the chemistry trades less storage (watt hours) in favor of more charge/discharge cycles.

All charge sustaining batteries to date have been NiMH. The fact that EnerDel is releasing a cost competitive Li/Ion battery of this type is very significant.

B Says:
October 12th, 2007 at 4:19 pm Quote

Right their website refers to size and volume for same amount of kWh but as their technology is much more powerful (around 5 kW/kg) they can achieve equivalent performances with only 600 Wh instead of 1.6 kWh for NiMH prius pack, battery operates in charge sustaining mode so power density is more important than energy density (1 kW/kg for NiMH). In this sense they can provide a cost-competitive solution relatively to NiMH.

But at 800 USD and less for powerful Li-Ion you can achieve an even much more cost-competitive solution ….

If Enerdel is able to produce at 500 USD/kg as quote in interview that’s a huge advance but at 2500 USD/kg due to progress of Li-Ion that’s vaporware.

Forget 100 Wh/kg for LTO/Mn battery but 70+ Wh/kg due to very long life is already great … if price is competitive.

Don-

It’s all a matter of how fast the battery can discharge the energy it holds - regardless of how much is actually in there. To use a hydraulic analogy, a big NiMH is like a large jug of water with a leaky, drippy spout. A high power lithium ion “jug” of the same size is going have its tap fully open. An ultracapacitor is going to be like tipping the whole jug over!

If you want some numbers, the Prius’ pack can produce about 375 Watts per kilogram. NiMH chemistry has a theoretical maximum of about 1000W/kg. The A123 power tool cells produce well over 3000W/kg! As for EnerDel, we’ll just have to wait and find out.

So the more powerful the cell, the less of them you have to have to produce the desired amount of power assist.

Li-ion is to lead-acid what fuel injection is to the carbuerator. Li-ion blows lead acid away.

[QUOTE=Craig;1028]they’re too expensive… if you want lithium batteries, have a look at the next thread in this forum, we’re considering a group order of lithium ion (or polymer)[/QUOTE]

Ion, Polymer is not yet practical for conversions…