Lithium Polymer Battery (Abbreviated LI-Poly or LiPo)
Lithium Polymer Batteries are rechargeable batteries that have been technologically derived and advanced from a standard Lithium Ion Battery used widely in laptops and cell phones for example. The Lithium salt electrolyte is not held in an organic matter like the lithium ion design. They are held in a solid polymer (large molecules consisting of repeating structural units or monomers connected by a chemical bonds) composition such as polyacrylonitrile. Some of the huge advantages from this spin off of the classic Lithium battery is that LI-Poly are not flammable unlike Li-ion Batteries, and much lighter. Also making them less hazardous for recycling.
LI-Ion batteries have a metal casing, LI-Poly have a flexible case making them lighter and able to be molded into any shape you can think of. The battery can be much lighter and denser making them much better than NiCd, NiMH and LI-Ion. This density relies on thin film technology that is only 100 microns thick. It uses a plastic electrolyte (free ions - electrically conductive medium) technology.
To date, most Lithium-polymer applications are for widely used consumer items like cell phones, MP3 players and many Bluetooth enabled devices where low weight and small size are essential. Until now where many auto makers are going to start using them in plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. This is a huge step for battery to car applications since you can make batteries that are for example embedded in the hood, between the doors or even the door itself. For now Lithium Polymer batteries a fairly expensive compared to other batteries. But until the price decrease from the use of large commercial applications you wont see these batteries at walmart.
I am looking for the best battery for the money in the long run. I am looking for the best battery to convert or buy an electric car to run about 50 miles on a charge at 60MPH. Would the Lithium Polymer be the best for the money? George
Right now for the money Li-Poly are pretty expensive but for your needs of only 50 miles I would think the best is a lead acid battery. The Optima D34/78 (yellow-top) lead-acid batteries, 750 CCA, 55 AH, part #8014-045 or any yellow top is right now the lead acid battery of choice. They dont give you the range that li-Poly will but for the money they are a bargin. You can find them ranging from $100 thru $175 each depending on quanity.
I have the opportunity to buy used Ni-Cd batteries that are about 14 years old and used in an electric vehicle with 14,000 miles on it. Would these batteries still have much life in them?
I would shy away from those batteries. Batteries that old , no telling the overall conditions. Charging cycles used. ETC . IMO I would not buy them. Put your money on something you can count on. Sorry for the short post I am running late.
Electric Vehicles of America reccomends Trogan Batteries for use in electric viehicles at this time a pack of 12 12 volt batteries will give you about 80 miles of range at a reasonable price the problem with Optima batteries is the weight, at first I thought they were the cats meow but the lead is what makes the car go, according to Bob Batsun, at EV America. Theese batteries require maintenence and cost about 170 dollars each. my progect is a 1993 saturn 2 door coupe, as of now it is on the hoist and the exhaust has been removed. The nest thing is the gas tank.
I fly electric RC planes and the price of lipolys is 1/4 what they were just four years ago. Not to mention the discharge rate has gone up almost ten fold. Four years years ago a 3 cell (11.1v) 2100mah lipo cost $75. Back then the battery had a max discharge rate of 4c (4 x capacity) = 8.4 amps. Now there are 10c rated 3 cell 2100’s available for under $40. In addition, there are 20c packs currently available. That’s 42 amps!
At first availability the limitation with lipos was cost and space available to be able to wire enough in parallel to cover your amperage draw. Hopefully this kind of progress takes hold in the EV market as well.
Price comparison… 8 cell (9.6v) NIMH 1000mah pack = $20 vs. 3 cell (11.1v) LIPO 1300mah pack = $23. 20% more voltage, 40% less weight, and 30% more capacity for 15% more money. Not a bad deal! Let’s keep the fingers crossed.
[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;154]I fly electric RC planes and the price of lipolys is 1/4 what they were just four years ago. Not to mention the discharge rate has gone up almost ten fold. Four years years ago a 3 cell (11.1v) 2100mah lipo cost $75. Back then the battery had a max discharge rate of 4c (4 x capacity) = 8.4 amps. Now there are 10c rated 3 cell 2100’s available for under $40. In addition, there are 20c packs currently available. That’s 42 amps!
At first availability the limitation with lipos was cost and space available to be able to wire enough in parallel to cover your amperage draw. Hopefully this kind of progress takes hold in the EV market as well.
Price comparison… 8 cell (9.6v) NIMH 1000mah pack = $20 vs. 3 cell (11.1v) LIPO 1300mah pack = $23. 20% more voltage, 40% less weight, and 30% more capacity for 15% more money. Not a bad deal! Let’s keep the fingers crossed.
Cheers[/QUOTE]
great info, its good to see on the smaller markets anyways the cost going down for bigger things…
Consider this, when I put my foot down on the acelleratator I will be drawing around 400 amps. To get the car to go any distance you would have to have lots of lithium batteries to produce just one time on the pedal, The only place I could find that sold thoose batteries couldn’t provide me with any informatation on them and they were made in India. My batteries are heavy yes but they are American Made something you don’t find everywhere.
I’m sorry, I’m not sure what your point is. Please explain…
Did you misunderstand the point of my post? I was merely explaining the advances noticed in Lipo technology in another market.
Also, you said, “My batteries are heavy yes but they are American Made something you don’t find everywhere.” Please explain… Are you saying that this offers some sort of advantage?
400 amps? What kind of accelleration are you expecting? Do you have hills to climb? What is your pack voltage? How many batts and what is their Ah rating? What kind of batts will you be or are you running?
What do you think about this battery are these good enough for a very fast long range small vehicle setup or is this a bad Idea. how many do you think i would need. My goal is for a small 4 seat sportcompact i need over 50 mile range and I want to go wicked FAST!! like a Z24 cavalier or Honda civic at worst a geo metro wich is a good car but i would like to get a car off the street that consumes more gas. I would feel like im helping more.
Specifications-
Nom Voltage(V) 12
Weight 158 (71.7kg)
Length (mm) 20.75 (527mm)
Width (mm) 11 (279mm)
Height (mm) 11 (279 mm)
Milliohms Resistance 3.0
Operating Temp -40°F (-40°C) -140°F (60°C)
Float Charging Voltage 2.25 - 2.30VPC
Cycle Service Charging Voltage 2.40 - 2.43VPC
Capacity at C/100 257 Capacity at C/20 245
Terminal T975
General Information-
The Benefits of a MK AGM Battery:
Sealed Absorbed Technology: Completely sealed; valve regulated battery with efficient recombination.
250 quality control checks through ISO 9001.
UL recognized components MH17218.
Rated non-spillable by ICAO/IATA/DOT.
Forged terminals and bushings assure no leakage.
Tank formation ensures voltage matching between cells
If you get a car going with lithium polymer batteries I would be very interested to see it. All I am saying is I checked it out I found NickelMetalhydride Batteries in Canada a battery pack ran around 10,000 Dollars. I don’t know about you but I want something comperable to my gas car, check out the video’s at this site with electric cars racing. I want a sleeper car. 400 amps is maxing out the motor I won’t be running it at that capacity long. But even modest acceleratation requires approx 100 amps. I think it would be great if you could come up with a light and powerful battery to move a midsized car down the Hwy. As far as american made I am a union worker and support american companies as much as I can, it is sad to see all the jobs going to China, Tiwan, Vietnam ect, Mexico is hurting too all thier “good” jobs have gone too. I did my homework I even tried to talk to The owner of a company in Troy Mich on the cutting edge of tech, but no reply. A major gas company now owns the company and I guess he is just a figurehead.
Granted these are expensive and small - I think this is what they’re using in the Killacycle drag bike though. I don’t know what kind of management go with running so many tiny cells.
new dawn - Google up the White Zombie car and check out his setup.
Does anyone know where to get the plate Lithium Ion Batteries that NASA created. I saw something about them on Modern Marvels and I know that Hybrid Technologies uses them for their electric cars and motorcycles. They say that they put out about a 100 amps and charge fully in about 6 hrs. that would be a dream from im thinking. but then again, im pretty new to this forum.
Any info would be great! thanks guys
Under their parts section:
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)
Model LFP-40
Dimensions 116×46×190 mm
Weight 1.5 Kg
Price $100
These cells are 40 Ah; nominally 3.2 volts, although they range from 4.25V to 2.5V
4 cells will make a 12.8-volt pack, and given the 95% efficiency of lithium vs. the 65% efficiency of lead are roughly equivalent to a 60 Ah lead-acid battery.
At $400 a 12V pack they are out of my price range but if you had the money that’s the way to go… They are around 6Lbs for a 12v 40AH pack that’s around 6 times lighter then the same 12v 40ah lead acid and according to that site that 40AH pack would be more like a 60AH pack because they are more efficient. You can’t go wrong with that
Granted these are expensive and small - I think this is what they’re using in the Killacycle drag bike though. I don’t know what kind of management go with running so many tiny cells.
new dawn - Google up the White Zombie car and check out his setup.[/QUOTE]
The max sustainable discharge is 70A and a max of 120A. That is not going to work well with a car conversion, barly for a bike conersion!
Thanks again, Big Ed for putting me straight about using the best battery for the job. ggmoelle