Starting lithium upgrade

I’ve been reading this forum for a few years now , great info ! I finished my 06 e4 about a year ago . did the usual 7.5 hp motor reprogrammed my own controller (have done multiple reprograming for others). nre wheels , paint , custom interior , etc. but been wanting to do another , more custom so just bought an inoperable 07 e4. replaced dead motor with a used 5hp I had and reprogramed it for 32 mph . then today ordered 20 lithium cells and hardware to install a lithium pack . I well document the results as I go and try and load pictures.

p.s. decided to go with the Nissan leaf LiMn02 modules , anyone have any experience with them ?

What are you going to use for charging/management?

deltaq , having lithium firmware installed and 10 different charge profiles loaded . I may add 4 more cells later and want to have multiple profiles available for fine tuning.

p.s. has anyone actually weighed their gem e4 ?

Tell us about the DQ upgrade. Who is doing it. Will it balance the cells/pack? Cost?

This is interesting because I didn’t know DQ had that capability. I always considered them a throwaway.

This is of great interest to a lot of owners.

Looking forward to seeing complete project - please post pictures.


Just wondering why you choose LiMn02 over LiFePO4?


I thought it takes 24 cells for a GEM application???

multiple reasons , LiMn being a newer technology has a higher density and lighter weight . they hold higher voltage so you use less cells. they also can handle high discharge rates .

this is what car manufactures use in ev’s
a 64ah battery pack weighs just 84lbs! compared to a 420lb gel pack .

but I think the biggest reason is that LiMn stay balanced very well compared to others and as your pack ages this is important.

Based on a quick read on the internet I thought the number of duty cycles for LiMn was about half of LiFe. If so in theory you’d need to replace them more often as they “age out”. Don’t know about the cost of the two technologies so that may also be a factor in your decision as well.

Let us know what your real world experiences are - others will benefit from your experiences I’m sure.


LiMn can be designed for maximum capacity or extended life .these are supposed to be for extended life , which makes sense if Nissan has to warranty this pack for 60k miles .a leaf gets just over 60 miles per charge , so warranty good for about a 1000 cycles ? actual number ? who knows . the pack delivered all in was 1400. so even if it only gives me double that of a gel pack , its a bargain .

I think someone would do very well selling a Kit" that converted Gems to lithium. A complete turn key kit would be very popular if you could do it for $2500-$3000

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I agree , I would have bought one myself instead of having to do the research and design one. I’m a busy guy and to be honest have more money on hand then time . but the option didn’t exist so here I am.

the cells and parts get here today, am going to try and get sometime tonight to start assembling the pack. I well try and post pictures also.

got the cells this afternoon , took of from work early to check them out . first thing I did was check the voltage with a fluke meter of each cell. all 20 cells were exactly 3.74v . they were identical in voltage down to the 1/100th of a volt . good don’t have to start with the pain in the azz cell balancing . so my brother stops buy to see them, says lets start assembling these things . so after 45 minutes we figured out how we were going to mount it and which brackets we were going to use and it was done . next hook all the cells together and all the wiring , 20 minutes and done. this was going way to easy and fast . so we look at each other grabbed the drill guns and stripped the gels out of the gem .

things were going so well decided to trial fit the pack , previous measurements were good pack fit perfect for the way we choose to assemble it . well its in so lets go ahead and screw it down , done . Cells have about a 45% charge in them , should we hook it up ?ok . done . Then he asks your not thinking of turning it on are you . I said " well I cant drive it if I don’t turn it on " hit the key and it comes on just like it always does . gauge says about half a charge (was told it would not work at all, with these cells its working. well have to test cell charge vs gauge and determine accuracy ).

hopped in it and went for a short ride around the block . stopped checked pack , still cold , checked cell voltage dropped a whole 3/100ths of a volt. time to see what it well do .

well it hauls butt, it is soo light it accelerates faster then a person would do in a car . I have the top speed regulated at 34mph because i’m running a stock 5 horsepower motor . it gets to top speed quick! braking is easier and it corners harder then you want to . this and it is down to about 25% soc . cant wait to see what it well do when the pack gets charged . this thing is 340 lbs lighter now . its lost over 25% of its weight . took it home hooked up a meter and turned on the delta q charger , I haven’t had it reprogrammed to lithium yet so I have to be the bms and watch it . charged it to about 65% capacity and decided to call it a night .

took plenty of pictures and well try and post them tomorrow night.

also i’m in naples florida if anyone wants to come over and see it and drive it , just let me know .


Wow: that’s awesome, please report back with pics

here are som pics

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this is us assembling modules

this is how we decided to assemble them to fit in gem , you can do it in lots of configurations .

this is the pack with all the jumpers on top hooked up and these are the wires to each cell (20) for a bms or individual cell monitoring .

this is the pack mounted in the center of the back seat . it fits well . it also appears you could mount it under therear fender were the 2 batteries go . this would give you the entire area under the rear seat for hidden storage .

on earlier gems it might be able to be installed in the front to help compensate for the weight loss.

[quote=OLD HOUSEBOATER;24680]Tell us about the DQ upgrade. Who is doing it. Will it balance the cells/pack? Cost?

This is interesting because I didn’t know DQ had that capability. I always considered them a throwaway.

This is of great interest to a lot of owners.

Looking forward to seeing complete project - please post pictures.


delta q is a great charger , now I only use and test them with gel batteries so I have no info with wet cells . the charging algorithm
is something I have never seen before . it bulk charges (cc) then does a cv charge around 83v (around 13.8v a battery) then it does a cv charge at about 86v (14.3 a battery) then it climbs to 96v! 16v a battery , for a gel! its like a small balance charge everytime the pack charges . it puts only a small amount of current so it wont hurt the batteries , i’m not aware of anyone else that does this . I have 2 gems one with a 5 year old battery and one with a 7 year old battery . if you plug your car in everytime you use it , the delta q well give you pretty incredible battery life.

I well take any delta q’s you want to “throw away”:):slight_smile:

Can you take a few pictures of the wiring head on to see how it looks as everything seems to be done very clean and two thumbs up on the work.

Awesome, wish I would have seen this 5 months ago. Just ditching weight would help tremendously in our area. I may put all my batteries on my boat and do this for fun. Thanks for the thread and pics.Where did you order the batteries from?