Hello Inwo, this is Village Way. I believe I saw in one of your posts that you had acquired some Gen 3 Nissan battery modules. Are you going to be selling them? If so, how much for 4? Also, do you know how much capacity they have left?
I had a line of some but the guy has disappeared.
Thanks
They were Gen 4 and someone wanted the whole battery.
What are you wanting them for. 24v something?
I have a 360ah 24v LiFePo4 that I built for someone who changed his mind. 10kwh.
1/2 would be easy to configure. 180ah 24v 5kwh.
I also have a bunch of LTO 24v modules. 20ah each.
Thanks for your reply. I am looking to do a golf cart conversion from lead/acid to lithium. The cart is a club car with a standard 45v system.
Wanting to get around or over 4kWh, around 56v and 4000wh (does that all make sense) My daughter-in-law has a 4 module gen3 set up that we believe gives her that power. I think she only has 7 of the 8 cells wired up.
This came from Rick in Vegas before he died.
sorry, I did a typo and stated 45v—it is a 48v system on my current lead acid batteries
16s gives you 51v nominal 3kwh
32 for 51v 130ah 6kwh.
48 for 9kwh 10kwh
I may be getting another Spark battery.
Each module is 16s 58-60v nominal. 3 shown.
The green ones look interesting but also look to be a little more complicated to wire up for a BMS. Lots of cells to manage to get at 6kWh The Spark battery looks like I would have to remove the center control in my cart to get it to fit. That complicates things.
I really do not know much about how to do this but it looks pretty straightforward. Put a battery pack of the right size, voltage together, wire up the BMS and get a charger that works with it. Looking to keep this as simple as possible. My daughter-in-law has the Gen3 leafs. 4 modules. I figure I could reverse engineer hers if I was having trouble making this thing up.
If you come across some high capacity Gen3 or better yet Gen4 Leafs, let me know and if the price is right we can do some business.
I live in California so shipping cost may be too expensive from your part of the country.
Thanks
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:57 AM Inwo via Electric Forum electricforum@discoursemail.com wrote:
February 2116s gives you 51v nominal 3kwh
32 for 51v 130ah 6kwh.
48 for 9kwh 10kwh
I may be getting another Spark battery.
Each module is 16s 58-60v nominal. 3 shown.
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Actually the same number of cells. 4 leaf modules are 16s 59v.
16s LiFePo4 are 51v.
Either way I have some really simple active energy transfer balancers. One wire to each cell. Not setup required.
Or you can do a full bms and program to what you want.
Bms is not needed in most cases for LiFePo4. They are drop in replacements. Only need to check the first few cycles that there are no outliers.
As I said, I do not know much about this kind of stuff. Just trying to learn and save myself some money. I think I need more than 16s. From you previous email I think that only gives me 3kwh. If that is correct it is not enough. I am not sure what the cost of everything (batteries, wiring, charger, etc) would be to get me over 4kwh. Do you have a cost for that and also, what would the life of these batteries be (typical) if I play a round of golf EVERYDAY and recharge every night.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 10:03 AM Inwo via Electric Forum electricforum@discoursemail.com wrote:
February 21Actually the same number of cells. 4 leaf modules are 16s 59v.
16s LiFePo4 are 51v.
Either way I have some really simple active energy transfer balancers. One wire to each cell. Not setup required.
Or you can do a full bms and program to what you want.
Bms is not needed in most cases for LiFePo4. They are drop in replacements. Only need to check the first few cycles that there are no outliers.
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2,000 cycles
Yes, you need 32 cells for 6.4kwh. $1600
Any stock 48v charger should work. What do you have?
Im not finding gen 3 modules anywhere.
You could get two sets of gen1 for 6kwh. They have a poor reputation though.
What is your budget?
Inwo, I appreciate your help. Budget is around 2K. I think I am going to wait until I can find the Gen3 Leaf batteries. I believe they will have more cycles and therefore become more cost effective in the long run. I can get 5 years out of my lead acid batteries playing at least 300 days a year. That is 1500 cycles. I can do that for around $700 so for me to replace them with a 2K system I need 3500 cycles min. I believe the Gen3 or Gen4 leafs will get 5000 cycles or more. Maybe I will buy a wreck, take the batteries and part the rest of the car or just wait. Got to be some Gen3’s of Gen4’s coming on the market at some point.
Thanks
On Thu, Feb 21, 2019 at 8:56 PM Inwo via Electric Forum electricforum@discoursemail.com wrote:
February 22Im not finding gen 3 modules anywhere.
You could get two sets of gen1 for 6kwh. They have a poor reputation though.
What is your budget?
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No guarantee of cycle life, but I wonder where you got the information?
LiFePo4 was developed to increase cycle life.
Just searched different forums for info. Do not remember which ones but the consensus seemed to be that the leaf/volt batteries would last as much as 3 to 5 times a regular lead acid. Rick (the guy from Vegas told my son that he could expect around 4to 5 times the life of his lead acid. Unfortunately he passed away. I admit. It is all a little confusing to me
Thanks
Bobby
On Feb 22, 2019, at 6:11 AM, Inwo via Electric Forum electricforum@discoursemail.com wrote:
February 22No guarantee of cycle life, but I wonder where you got the information?
LiFePo4 was developed to increase cycle life.
Lithium iron phosphate battery
The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery, also called LFP battery (with “LFP” standing for “lithium ferrophosphate”), is a type of rechargeable battery, specifically a lithium-ion battery, which uses LiFePO4 as a cathode material, and a graphitic carbon electrode with a metallic current collector grid as the anode. The specific capacity of LiFePO4 is higher than that of the related lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2) chemistry, but its energy density is slightly lower due to its low operating volt…
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The gen 3 and gen4 may be ok, but early leafs had issues.
500-1000 full cycles for 3.7v lithion and 2000 for LiFepo4 seems to be a rule of thumb.
LTO is good for 10,000 to 20,000 cycles.
In practice, you won’t see that many cycles, many users let them go dead after they get complacent.
Me included!
If you find a gen 4 Leaf, I can use your extra modules. They are the only ones that I trust to be good…
I’m not trying to sell you anything. I’m retired with a battery addiction. 
Be glad to help with whatever you find.
Thank You, I appreciate that. Your prior email said that LTO is good for 10,000 to 20,000 cycles. 10,000 cycles is like 27 years at once per day or am I wrong? What is LTO? Is it the LiFepo4? I am sorry that I am so dumb on these things, just never messed with anything other than Lead Acid.batteriessss
Like I said before, I can get around 5 years on lead acid. 4 batteries cost me around $700. For me to go Lithium, of any kind, I need to go 10 years for a $1,400 investment or 15 years for a $2,100 investment. It is just math. I do not mind maintaining the lead acid if it keeps the cost down. It is just about the dollars and cents for me… Just a utilitarian kind of guy. Just has to be cost justified if that makes sense.
If I have missed something in the info you have shared with me let me know. I am leaning toward the Leaf thing but open to other options if the numbers work.
Thanks for your help and info.
On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 7:13 AM Inwo via Electric Forum electricforum@discoursemail.com wrote:
February 22If you find a gen 4 Leaf, I can use your extra modules. They are the only ones that I trust to be good…
I’m not trying to sell you anything. I’m retired with a battery addiction.
Be glad to help with whatever you find.
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You will never save money with lithium. IMO
Advantages are less wait for hotrodders, no maintenance, no gassing.
Downsides are many. Only LTO works in the cold and tolerates over discharging. But LTO is 2 times to 4 times the money.
The 3 main chemistries are Li-ion 3.7v, Lifepo4 3.2v, and LTO 2.7v.
If it wasn’t for shipping cost I would let you try a 60ah lto Altarnano module I have here. It was in my brothers 48v truck for a couple months. He wanted more miles. It was only 3.5kwh.
Lto will do 10c all day, charge in 10 minutes. Both at over 600a.
All lithium can suffer infant mortality or sudden death. As can lead also.
Can’t think of any reason you would switch to lithium just golfing. Will your cart even last that long?
https://altairnano.com/products/battery-module/
I have the invoice for 25 modules. Cost was $55,800 or Over $2k each
My 48v module is two of these in one case.
Lots of good information here. Can I make it public?
You can edit posts if you want.
