Hmmm If he bought a complete set of gears he should have received an input shaft a intermediate cluster assembly and an output gear. What gears were in the package from RFF? I would believe he must of received an input shaft and the primary side of the cluster assembly. (please confirm)When your guy assembled did he use t)he secondary (small) from the existing transmission along with the output (ring) gear that wasnt noisy? Or did they come from another source?
If everything assembled with care the RFF gear set is the problem and should be returned,
A suggestion was made that a used 14.76 trans mission be purchased and be given a set of bearings and possibly a new input shaft. Nick Tyson is a good source, A far out possibility Check your input shaft it needs to be 20 tooth NOT 21.
! noisy gear boxes are almost always gear related, Example the 16, 17. and early 18 GEMs
2 Rubber mounting is only marginally effective on noise.
3 Heavy oil has a very minor affect on noise.
The bottom line is that you have a defective set of geas and/or bearings.
What came was an input shaft with a gear already on it. I believe it was a single piece. Also one intermediate gear that had to be pressed on the existing shaft after the old one was removed. Both came from R4F as a package. Here are the removed pieces that were replaced. The rest of the gears and all the bearings were reused. Everything turn smooth by hand after the change.
The guy that did it is a great mechanic and took care to get it right. (I watched and āhelpedā but Iām not a wrench).
I assume you mean the 20 teeth on the input spline where it attaches to the motor? Would a 21 tooth even mesh up at all?
The transmission was fine and quiet prior to the change out.
R4F says these gears are made via an automated process and they have sold many without issue. Being a retired control systems engineer, I believe in the automation processā¦ (mostly)ā¦
He says it has to be an alignment issue. So tomorrow I will pull the box again and this time we will not only check alignment closely, but put new bearings in as well, just to eliminate any possible issues unrelated to the gears. Those bearings were quiet before but pulling and pushing could be problematicā¦ I donāt think so, but gotta try everything.
So I had my mechanic change out the two gears set that I got from R4F. Right away the thing made a incredible noise driving down the road. With all the holidays and so on I was just now able to get him to look at it again. I took it all apart drove out to his shop and once taken apart, the gears are lined up perfectly. There doesnāt seem to be any reason for the noise other than the gears themselves. Also there are fine metal particles in the brand new oilā¦ so something aināt rightā¦ but it is not an alignment issue as we thought it might be. My mechanic says about the only thing it could be is that the gears are not cut right for some reason but he is not able to pinpoint it without a complete tear down again, and he doesnāt have time for quite awhile.
Turning everything by hand, it is smooth and seems fine, but when you push it to any speed with the motor, it whines like a banshee.
R4F says same gears he has been selling for yearsā¦ So I am not sure what to doā¦ mechanic says fill it with heavy oil and run the crap out of it and let the gears quiet (read wear) down on their own, if they will. Not sure what else to do at this point.
So far I have only put less than 2000ā on the rig after the gear change. Any suggestions, again?
-R4F says these gears are made via an automated process and they have sold many without issue.
-R4F says same gears he has been selling for years-
Two of the weakest responses I have ever seen, from a guy that clearly doesnāt care about helping to solve an issue with a product he distributes and sells.
What he should be saying:
Iām sorry this is happening. I was unaware of any problems with the current batch. Let me check my stock and Iāll get a replacement set out to you right away. It would cost him postage out and to get the howler set back.
He doesnāt seem to have any idea how gears are made. Cutters wear, and tolerances can vary between batches. It is up to the operator to catch this and make adjustments. There are big differences between the new guy running the machine and the seasoned veteran that has been working the machine for 40 years. Then there is the guy who actually checked the batch before shipping?
You arenāt the only one having this issue. I heard a second hand rumor of another guy down in SanD that bought a set and is having same howling issues. I have a feeling there may be more and he has no clue how to deal with it.
Iāll go dig up a gearbox and stare at it a bit and see if I can come up with something.
Random thoughts in no particular order
Did you take any pics of the disassembly this time? Maybe someone can see something.
If you saw metal in the oil this might mean it is wearing in. The offending gear mesh might show signs of a difference in the grind. (the tips more polished than the root?)
If the ring gear was made too big, this would put too much load on the bearings. Maybe what you are hearing are the bearings howling? (let me go back to your street run vid and listen to it again)
Was it tough to install the input shaft?
You say there is no issue turning the gearbox by hand, but I would look at the relationship between the gears that you installed(input and large intermediate). Tough to do when in the car now, fully assembled, and oiled up, but was there any slop/runout between the first two two gears? (before the large ring gear installed)
For now, Iād say the same as your mechanic. Go ahead and run it.
You can still build around it.
Iāll see if I can scrounge up a replacement 14.76 gearbox and maybe we can swap. If you still have the old 10:33 gears they can always be put back in and find a home in a speedster.
That is what he saysā¦ and the thing is smooth when turned by handā¦ I am not a mechanic, so I can only go by with those that are have to say. What do you think? Run the crap out of it and let it grind itās own settling point? (my interpretation of what will happen).
If this is truly a bad grind. If it were me, Iād give it a bit of valve grinding compound and lap those gears together. It would probably get into the bearings, so Iād use an old set, then a total flush of the gear case and put in the new bearings and seals.
It would take off a bit of the hardened surface, and maybe the gears would continue to eat themselves over the long run if they were only surface hardened, but this is a low speed and low service vehicle. You may not even notice. Itās not like you are going to take the train over to the market for groceries. (maybe you will?)
Yeahā¦ I figured the market is outā¦ at least for nowā¦ ha haā¦
Part of the decision to just let it do itās thing is the fact that it is a parade vehicle and if I put 10 miles on it in a year, that would be almost excessive.
R$F is good for basic things. Most of us have bought from them.
They are an easy place to pick up a D&D high rpm DC motor and for the uninitiated, as we all have been, they include a controller reprogramming. They only change 2 parameters but for the masses maybe thats enough.
Where they fall flat on their face is anything beyond where they can .send a baic level part that requires zero brains. Gearsets, lithium batteries ehhhhā¦ ( i should set up a pool for when an R$F li-ion battery burns down someones house ala Cruzin style).
Why are not supporting you? These are brand new gears. They dont work for shyt. Where are they to stand behind their product? Hiding in the corner, keeping the bucks and passing the blameā¦ seen this before with them.
I didnāt know that about themā¦ So far we have been keeping in touch with my saying my mechanic says itās the gears and them saying we sell a lot of them and never had that issue and add Motor Honey and let us know how it goes. They havenāt left me in the cold completelyā¦ yet.
So, my mechanic says jack it up and run it a long time to see if that cures the issue (like wears the gears).
To be honest, Iām not so hot on taking that apart for the 3rd time. Since itās a parade float, I will never put more than 10 miles on it a yearā¦ Sucks that itās noisy at higher speedsā¦ but at the 2mph of a parade, it wonāt be an issue sound wise.
Thatās the problem Craig, those answers are dodgy and sound a lot like āToo bad, its you. GFY.ā
I had some upgrade hubs for 00-04s from NEVA crack and shatter (cant remember if it was one or both). From the disc brake upgrade kit. When i talked to them and sent photos, they told me those are custom made for them and they sell a lot of them and rarely an issue. They sent free replacement(s) though.
Iāve seen some other peoole who sell stuff for gems do similar.
I guess some people just care more about a couple $ than making things right.
Fir the record R$F has never done me wrong like this, but i will say they have been less than forthcoming with support or straight answers more than a few times.
I know they sound like that, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until it becomes a problem. Also, Iām not a mechanic so I an not fast to accuse their parts of being wrong. My mechanic is pretty sure the gear cut is the issue but he canāt say for sure 100%. Iām just a bit slow to judge when I am not that competent on a specific subject, gears being one of those.
We shall see how it plays out then start down the road of needing to make it right if necessary.
