Yesterday we changed out the 10:1 for a 15:1 gear set. I put SAE 5-30 in the box and boy is it noisy!
I have a few questions for you guys that have done gear changes.
Thanks in advance
A higher viscosity oil will help reduce the noise from the gearbox. It won’t hurt anything in the gearbox.
I would think any 75W-90 or 85w-90 should be fine. I doubt if it would even benefit from synthetic. I used to run auto parts store house brand mineral based gear oil.
First off I never heard of a 15:1 Gem Gear raito.
The gear sets I’m aware of are
9.8 10.35 12.44 14.?
Typically the Spicer transmissions have had less gear Noise, the Shafer transmission in the 2013-2015 cars had a Little more noise as well. They were all 12:44 raito.
Try running a Heavy weight oil and add some of what they are calling motor honey. Lucas Oils makes a additive they say add 90% gear oil and 10% motor honey to your Gear box and it helps
The gears came from Ride 4 Fun. Robt Simon hooked me up…
He also suggested the Motor Honey… I never heard of it… but I’m going to go looking.
Thanks
Mike McCormick was also reporting that Using HONDA gear paste made the Cv and Input shaft connections more quiet. It’s a Oil that has plastic in it so when it gets HOT the lubrication or gear shock dampening stays
Ok. 1. Did you buy an actual gear set or just individual gears from another car? 2. If you bought an actual set for that gear box, did it come with shims? Did you check the service manual for the recommended gear lash? When you installed them did you spin them by hand and take note if they spun easily or was there tension. Gears are designed to fit together and spin at a certain depth. If the teeth go in too far or not far enough you will get noise and more importantly a gear failure due to broken teeth. (I’m assuming we are talking about a whine and not a klunk). You are not going to want to hear this, but if it were me, I would take it apart and coat the gears with pressen blue. It’s a paste with a blue colored dye. As you hand spin the gears it will make a mark showing you how far down the teeth are meshing. Characteristically 2/3 to 3/4 is a good fit , however checking the service manual or calling the dealer would be a good idea . This can usually be adjusted by adding or removing shims behind the gears or races. As this low of RPM you probably won’t destroy anything IMMEDIATELY, but noise in a machine is usually like pain in the body. In itself not the end of the world, but definitely a warning… big thing is check the gear mesh / lash . Mesh is how far into each other the gears are running. Lash is how far you can move the gears can against each other before they touch completely. They should spin freely with the ever so slight tension. Some gear boxes actually have a resistance value (rolling torque) that can be measured with a torque wrench. If they are too tight , no gear oil in the world will help. If too loose, the thicker the better. In the old days we used to use saw dust or banana peels as a temp way to stop the noise…
@Cformony - It’s not that kind of gear set. Helical and straight cut gear sets do not normally adjust with shims. That would just move the gear to the side and it would still mesh the same.
Where exactly are the shims going that would affect how the gears mesh?
I think you are confusing this set with how you set up a ring/pinion?
-or -
Is there a taper on these gears so the lash can be set by moving them side/side? (in which case you would also find shims when it was torn down.
But I do agree with you. These seem like they are a bit too tight and/or not cut correctly.
Bob- R4F might want to question the source.
I bought a set of new from Ride 4 Fun. There are no shims or even places for shims related to the new gears.
No clunk just a whine. Everything meshes really nicely from what I can tell but I am not a wrench, I’m a sparky. The mechanic that helped, (read: did the work while I held stuff), put it all together.
The entire gear train spun really nice by hand. Easily turn smoothly with two finger.
Today I will try the heavier oil and some motor honey.
Not tight… smooth turning with two fingers no problem. As for cut correctly, I would not know. Gears are not my thing.
Like you said, no place for shims related to the two new gears.
When you have a sec, can you post a vid of this whine?
Do you have a pic of the new gear set? Were they straight cut gears?
Does this happen also with wheels up on stands? - or- sound different when loaded/unloaded?
If still noisy when wheels up, use a stick placed at bearing points on the gearbox to see if you can isolate which shaft/gear set might be causing the noise. The top(input to intermediate) is going to be highest since it is spinning the fastest. The mid (intermediate to output) (the ones you replaced) will be a lower tone, given the speed being driven.
When you put the motor back on, did you also replace the rubber disc that goes in the coupler? Is it possible you packed grease up behind the disc and the motor shaft is end to end loaded now? This puts some huge side loads on the motor and input shaft bearings which they are not designed for. They might be what is complaining.
I’ll shoot a video when it warms up outside just a bit… only about 7am here
They were not straight cut gears. There was the input shaft with that gear cut on the shaft (single piece) and the meshing gear which of course is next in line. There were some small shims located in the differential but they never really came out and they are still in there. I didn’t see them but the mechanic did and made sure they were in place. They never actually came out.
I will try the wheels up thing… I have a listening headset for locating noises… I’ll use that.
There was no rubber disk. The motor accepts the spline shaft from the gearbox… I looked in the manual and the only disk there was one from shipping that says to discard when installing the motor…
“1 0313-00168 BUMPER, RESILIENT - DIFF TO MOTOR (FOR SHIPPING PURPOSES
ONLY, DISCARD BEFORE ASSEMBLY)”
That of course didn’t exist in my old car. Is there supposed to be some sort of rubber piece in there? There was not one when I pulled it apart.
I did put a bit of grease in the motor female spline (not sure what it’s really called)… I will check that out as well.
None of this was noisy before I changed gears… I know that doesn’t mean it was the gears, just a point of reference.
Yes- the general consensus says the resilient bumper is supposed to stay in there. Odd that the manual says it is for shipping? What is the need for that?
It absorbs a bit of vibration/shaft/chatter slop. I don’t think it is the cause of the whine you are dealing with.
And you installed 14.76 gears?
Someone else asked about that rubber piece also. I couldn’t figure out what rubber piece…
So, yes the 14.76 gears… they just call them 15…
I did jack up the front and of course only one tire runs. Noise is still there but I couldn’t get close to listen because I didn’t have anyone to help me. I will work on that in a bit when I have help… someone has to hold down the peddle… ha ha
One more thing that just crossed my mind… that rubber bumper wasn’t in there before and the noise wasn’t there either.
Never did make it out today… So no heavy gear oil yet…
Did you replace the input shaft or the small bearing it goes through?
14 Gears? I’m confused. The aftermarket gear sets R4F sells are lower gear sets to make the cars go faster NOT slower. Wouldn’t a 14 gear set make the transmission spinal fast and the car go slow
10.35 is considered the speed set of gears. 12.44 is a little slower (given no other changes) and considered better for cars that are in hilly areas. Pythan went one step slower and found a set of 14.76.
Review- He is building a parade float from this e4. He does not want it to go fast.
The input shaft with the one small gear on it… it was made as one piece. I did not replace the bearings as they all seemed fine.
YES… slower with higher torque. That is what I was after, and it did just that.
