New field for me

EV Small Talk
1

I feel like I’m diving into the unfamiliar here in this forum, I’m more used to conventional drivetrains.
At any rate, has anybody here done much with full sized vehicles? I see tons of little cars, but what about the larger vehicles? I would think they would make a better candidate, what with having better ability to handle the weight of a battery pack, more room to store batteries and electronics, etc.

From that, you can probably figure I want to build a full size EV. I’m in the planning stages now to build a vehicle for my wife and our kids that can handle around town and long-range trips. My basic though is to start with a 68 F100, build it out to something like an Expedition, but with a bit more gas-friendly drivetrain. I do plan on having an on-board diesel generator to give it cross-country range without plugging in, but size it to be just a bit more than needed at regular highway cruise.
I figure that with this combo, I should be able to see 35-40mpg out of a truck that would otherwise get 15-18.
My stumbling points are how to figure out the components I need, aside from calculating how much power this thing will really need. I do plan on using the factory rear axle and driveshaft, but I want to use a toroidal drive to keep the motor in it’s sweet spot to get the most efficiency, rather than a conventional transmission.
Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Sorry for the book, but that’s kinda my style :stuck_out_tongue:

2

usual problems with bigger vehicles is the trade off from acceleration from the electric motors and range you would get (even with more batteries)

3

Range is going to be a non-issue, since it will have what is essentially an on-board generator. I would like to get the most out of the batteries without having to run the generator as much, but I’ll take it as it comes.

4

I am still a little onfused on your plans. Are you going to make it into an electric driven vehicle with a diesel generator? or a traditional hybrid? I would recommed the first. A full sized vehicle would be more practical, but a newer one woule be even more practical. Your old truck was made in a day that everthing was made as heavy as you could make it. Steel everywhere… Your final conversion can weigh at least twice what the original curb weight of the truck was. as far as motors and acceleration, you can use a dual DC motors to get amazing power. Netgain technologies makes a motor called the transwarp 11 which has an output shaft the will connect directly to a driveshaft that leads into a rear axle. The transwarp 11 also has the ability to accept a second warp 11 motor on the rear of it, with will double your horsepower and torque. I am running a double motor setup in my little car with a transwarp 9 and a warp 9. This motor configuration yields around 850 Ft/lbs of torque! and around 450 hp (ice equiv.)! My 4dr sedan goes 0-60 in 3 sec. And that is with 9"motors. If you did 11" motors you could easily pop a wheelie in your truck (: if that is too much power then you can always dial down the power with your motor controller, with the piece of mind that you have the power if you need it, towing or what have you.

5

With an Explorer tipping the scales at just under 5000lbs, your Expedition is close to twice the weight of a normal car. Not a “little” car, but a NORMAL car. Putting a Warp11 or two in that thing would suck so much power that even the practically unavailable technology of today/tomorrow would be lacking. A generator hybrid setup would be the better choice, but one has to ask. Why would you realistically need something that big in the first place? Come to think of it… how DID Americans get around before the auto companies brainwashed them into thinking they needed 7000lbs of metal surrounding them just to go to Starbucks for a decaf mocha latte?
One more note… a Crown Victoria is a full size car (at < 4000lbs). An Expedition is size XL.

6

Lectrol - Have you got a website for your car? I need more info on this.

I’ve looked at the Transwarp motors and they seem to be grossly underrated by the manufacturer, based on the power claims I’ve seen from users. Most likely I don’t understand what’s going on with the way they’re rated.

inSANe DIEGO - When did Americans not drive big cars? Back in the day of the model T?

Sorry, but the only small car I want to own is a sports car. Otherwise the ideal car for me is a big, smooth riding car. Preferably an electric one fed by solar power. Not practical yet, but that’s what I want. Or, if I ever have kids, the dreaded SUV/minivan. You’ve got to have room for them, their friends, and all their stuff. Especially if you’re going to travel any distance with them.

7

My wife and I can and have comfortably traveled in our Subaru Outback wagon more than 8 hours away from home with 2 mountain bikes, gear AND luggage for a week’s stay. This is while keeping ALL of the previously mentioned equipment INSIDE the car. Interesting enough we passed SEVERAL behemoth suvs with other couples (not families) who had their bikes or other equipment on the OUTSIDE of the things. Where’s all that extra room? I live in a VERY family oriented community. Most of those in the know have minivans that haul all 5 members with football equipment, coolers, etc.

I never said americans only drove small cars until recently. However, can you tell me when the first year a vehicle over 6000 lbs was considered the average american car? What was the biggest average “family” car on the road in the early 80’s even. How much did that weigh? Vehicles like the Expedition, Excursion, Suburban, Escalade, yada yada where marketed to boost egos of those obsessed with material status and those with low self-esteem. The marketing also preyed on the general public’s lack of initiative to do actual research and instead believe the propagada techniques of advertising.

Just look at the commercials. They sell on safety when the rollover rate is twice that of a normal car. They boast offroad ability that is only as good as my “little” Outback. I know, I’ve driven circles around many on the dirt roads and have gone through ruts and ditches where others got stuck. All the while 90% of the suvs on the road only see dirt when the wheel drops off the driveway into the flower garden.

What they don’t tell you in the advertising is that the heavier a vehicle is the faster it wears out parts. That’s more money for the manufs. Couple that with the extreme brainwashing of the masses into believing that these monstrosities are a must for everyday survival and you have a recipe for big bucks fast and future maintenance.

Smooth riding is determined by shock valving, spring rates and suspension compliance. Not size of vehicle. If size of vehicle were the determining factor people wouldn’t say things like, “It rides like a truck” when describing how smooth something wasn’t when they drove it.

Light and softly tuned to drive smooth handles night and day better than heavy and tuned just enough to support the weight and be equally as smooth as the lighter vehicle.

8

I wasn’t talking about couples.

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;1135]
Interesting enough we passed SEVERAL behemoth suvs with other couples (not families) who had their bikes or other equipment on the OUTSIDE of the things. Where’s all that extra room? I live in a VERY family oriented community. Most of those in the know have minivans that haul all 5 members with football equipment, coolers, etc.[/quote]

They aren’t taking their kid’s friends along with them then.

My mechanic usually has 6-7 kids running around. 6-7 kids means one big vehicle or two smaller vehicles (and two adults being free at the same time to drive).

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;1135]
I never said americans only drove small cars until recently.[/quote]

You’re implying a majority did before the SUV craze came along.

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;1135]
However, can you tell me when the first year a vehicle over 6000 lbs was considered the average american car?[/quote]

I don’t believe that has ever been the case. It isn’t the case now. I live in truck country and the big SUV’s, the Suburbans and the (discontinued?) Excursion, are a rare sight. I’ve only seen one Excursion in my life, and it was a work truck not a personal ride.

Similiarly the dually pick ups are almost all working farm vehicles, not pleasure vehicles.

I googled the weights of a few mid-size SUV’s, and got a range of 4700-5000 lbs. That seems about right for the big wagons of the 50’s/60’s/70’s.

But keep in mind that I said SUV/minivan, not SUV only. I’m fine with a van if it will do the job.

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;1135]
They boast offroad ability that is only as good as my “little” Outback. I know, I’ve driven circles around many on the dirt roads and have gone through ruts and ditches where others got stuck.[/quote]

Ehm, when equipped with the right tires and driven correctly trucks actually have that off road capability. The Outback is not close, it doesn’t have the ground clearance. Try any real offroading with it and you will be stuck in no time.

Sure, manufacturers sell trucks on street tires to posers who will get them stuck in a mud puddle. I’m not argueing for the benefit of posers here, but for people who need the capability.

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;1135]
Smooth riding is determined by shock valving, spring rates and suspension compliance. Not size of vehicle. If size of vehicle were the determining factor people wouldn’t say things like, “It rides like a truck” when describing how smooth something wasn’t when they drove it.

Light and softly tuned to drive smooth handles night and day better than heavy and tuned just enough to support the weight and be equally as smooth as the lighter vehicle.[/QUOTE]

Let me clarify, when I said “big” I was referring to interior volume, not weight. I’d be fine with a 1000lb car with the room the Riv has, provided all the other vehicles on the road were restricted to a 1000 lb mass. I don’t want to be in a 1000 lb car though with 4-5000 lb cars passing only a few feet away in the opposite direction. A head-on collision is bad enough when the car weights are roughly even. Yeah, I now there are semis and other heavy vehicles on the roads too, and I wish they weren’t, but odds are it will be another passenger vehicle in any wreck.

9

[QUOTE=Jack the R;1132]Lectrol - Have you got a website for your car? I need more info on this.

I’ve looked at the Transwarp motors and they seem to be grossly underrated by the manufacturer, based on the power claims I’ve seen from users. Most likely I don’t understand what’s going on with the way they’re rated. [/QUOTE]

For the motor, the test data is aquired at 72v, which is highly underpowering the motot. I have no website and do not really have the time right now to make one for my EV. There is a guy that has a similar setup with two motors, he is using 8" motors, but you get the basic idea. His is fast as **** I have not tested my motors yet because i am at the battery stage. Here is his website, http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

10

O.K. The factoid about the test voltage for the TransWarp motors is a big help. I was afraid other guys were over-hyping their rides.

I’ve been through Plasma Boy’s site. Inspiring, to say the least!

11

Thank you for your response, Lectrol. This will be an electric vehicle with an on-board generator, no connection between the diesel and the wheels, and the ability to go into golf cart mode.
For those questioning the size of the vehicle:
Let’s see you fit multiple carseats, camping gear, and two dogs into something else. Not to mention, with the cargo capacity of this thing, I won’t need my 8mpg truck to go to the store and get cement or boards or steel or tires or…

12

A chance look at an article has taught me a few things, and contradicts some of what people think:
What I want to build is called a Serial Hybrid.
I’m not the first to think of this for trucks.
This is a much better thing than trying to improve the mileage of a small car, Prius or other conventional hybrid. Why?
Look at how much fuel a truck of this size would use, or even it’s modern equivalent, the Ford Expedition and Chevy Suburban. Both hit around 16mpg. For comparison’s sake, lets say they have a 300 mile range. That’s just under 19 gallons of gas. Compare to a high mpg car, like a Corolla, getting 35mpg. It goes the same distance on 8.5 gallons. Or a conventional hybrid getting around 50mpg, which will use 6gallons.
Now let’s say that, with this system, I can get 32mpg, or double the mileage I was/should be getting. Now I will go 300 miles on about 8.5 gallons. Double the mileage of anything else, you only save 4.25 gallons in the Corolla, and only 3 gallons in the Hybrid.
Given that the people who drive trucks and large SUVs will drive a truck or large SUV at a poor mileage before they would be caught anywhere near a little high MPG car or hybrid, or actually have a legitimate need for these vehicles, the fuel savings of the truck are twice to nearly three times what you would get from the other vehicles.
So there. :smiley: