Having always loved the look of American Muscle Cars, I am planning on converting this 71 Plymouth Duster. I figure it will be about 4500# after conversion. I won’t say yet what my modest range and speed goals are:) I will be using it mainly for commuting and errands on basically flat ground.
I am a novice to EVs. What do you experienced people think I can achieve with a Warp9 at 144 volts using 6v batteries. Any opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I’m ready to begin the project.
No offense meant, but , are you nuts!!! you are going to take a serious value hit by converting a classic! Better to sell it as is, and build or buy an EV of your choice.
[QUOTE=mtngazer;3559]No offense meant, but , are you nuts!!! you are going to take a serious value hit by converting a classic! Better to sell it as is, and build or buy an EV of your choice.[/QUOTE]
Yes mtngazer, I guess I am nuts. After all, I got interested in this EV stuff - and I want to have something different than everyone else. No offense taken.
The car is probably not worth as much as you must think. The collector car market has taken a serious hit for about the last year, and Mopar A-bodies were never the high dollar ones to begin with. Who knows, this conversion may actually ADD to its value.
Anyway, that is not really the point. I don’t intend to sell it. I don’t own it for its monetary worth. Similarly to the gentleman who owns the Electric DeLorian, this is a car I own because I enjoy having it. I consider it a work of American art - a symbol of a great time in our history. I think it would be cool to demonstrate it’s old school looks and technology blended with some new ideas. AND, I could actually drive it cleanly and economically.
P.S. I don’t expect the real Mopar and/or muscle car purists to like the idea much either.
Thanks for the response! Let’s hear from some others. What’s my range and speed likely to be?
[QUOTE=MoparGarage;3570]Yes mtngazer, I guess I am nuts. After all, I got interested in this EV stuff - and I want to have something different than everyone else. No offense taken.
The car is probably not worth as much as you must think. The collector car market has taken a serious hit for about the last year, and Mopar A-bodies were never the high dollar ones to begin with. Who knows, this conversion may actually ADD to its value.
Anyway, that is not really the point. I don’t intend to sell it. I don’t own it for its monetary worth. Similarly to the gentleman who owns the Electric DeLorian, this is a car I own because I enjoy having it. I consider it a work of American art - a symbol of a great time in our history. I think it would be cool to demonstrate it’s old school looks and technology blended with some new ideas. AND, I could actually drive it cleanly and economically.
P.S. I don’t expect the real Mopar and/or muscle car purists to like the idea much either.
Thanks for the response! Let’s hear from some others. What’s my range and speed likely to be?[/QUOTE]
I am in a similar situation with an '88 5.0 Mustang. It is hella fast and a hoot to drive, but I prolly could not get $3k for it with 240,000 miles on the odo. This class of car offers some real advantages for an EV. I don’t know about the Duster, but the GVW of the Mustang is over 4200 pounds. These cars have good brakes and heavy duty drivelines and suspensions for putting up the abuse generated by big torquey V8s. When you pull the engine and accessories. it pulls a LOT of weight out of the car. Parts availability is great and always will be, unlike some small imports. There are no airbags or chassis computers to deal with.
I am wrestling with motor and battery selection. On the table is the WARP11 vs siamesed Impulse9s. I like the simplicity of the WARP11, but the efficiency (range) definitely favors the short 9s. My target is 30 miles at 50% DoD, and I think I will get it. I have room for 150V worth of probably US Battery 1800XC, although I have not yet settled on a particular battery for sure.
One surprising thing to me is that lead used for higher pack voltage seems to impact range more than lead used for capacity when choosing a battery. Forget the 8V and 12V batteries though, they are just not up to the strain.
-enganear
[QUOTE=enganear;3572]This class of car offers some real advantages for an EV. I don’t know about the Duster, but the GVW of the Mustang is over 4200 pounds. These cars have good brakes and heavy duty drivelines and suspensions for putting up the abuse generated by big torquey V8s. When you pull the engine and accessories. it pulls a LOT of weight out of the car. Parts availability is great and always will be, unlike some small imports. There are no airbags or chassis computers to deal with.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! I figure my Duster will weigh about 4500# incl batteries after conversion. The thing has really stiff after-market HD rear springs and it should handle the extra weight with no problem. I wanted to get the back end down a bit anyway
Another advantage for me is that I own several of these cars and have worked on, and am intimately familiar with every square inch of it. There will be no learning curve for me on the car itself, only on the EV components. No removed parts will be wasted either. They’ll just go onto one of the other cars (well, someday).
I just have lots of questions and decisions to make as to how I want to do this conversion to achieve the desired results.
[QUOTE=Seafarer12;3590]It should work. It will just be slow with no range.[/QUOTE]
Well, I’d be interested in hearing what you think WOULD work. I came on this forum because I thought I might learn something from experienced, helpful people instead of being discouraged by 2 out of 3 replies with no helpful information. Criticism CAN be constructive - or it can just be criticism.
Mopar
I like your idea, I am new to EVs and am looking for a donor vehicle to start my first conversion. I am reading and learning a lot and I think your idea will work. I thought this information was interesting comparison of Motors to ICEs http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm
and more on the Warp Motors http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
The TransWarp 11 at 144 to 168 volts would get you gobs of torque and it looks like it could push your heavy car to 60 MPH easy. And you can get by without a transmission, you may need to change rear end gearing to get the most out of it, but that would be just like ICEs looking at your torque/RPM curve and determining your gearing from that.
As far as range that will depend on how you drive, the slower you go the farther you can go.
Again I am learning too so look at the links and see what you think.
[QUOTE=Turbotom;3612]Mopar
I like your idea, I am new to EVs and am looking for a donor vehicle to start my first conversion. I am reading and learning a lot and I think your idea will work. I thought this information was interesting comparison of Motors to ICEs http://www.grassrootsev.com/cpacks.htm
and more on the Warp Motors http://www.go-ev.com/motors-warp.html
The TransWarp 11 at 144 to 168 volts would get you gobs of torque and it looks like it could push your heavy car to 60 MPH easy. And you can get by without a transmission, you may need to change rear end gearing to get the most out of it, but that would be just like ICEs looking at your torque/RPM curve and determining your gearing from that.
As far as range that will depend on how you drive, the slower you go the farther you can go.
Again I am learning too so look at the links and see what you think.[/QUOTE]
Tom,
Excellent! Thank you for that Grassroots link. I had been on their site before but I did not see that comparison. It tells me that a Warp9 will do what I am after.
Maybe I miscalculated the total after-conversion weight that I mentioned above. The Duster is a fairly light vehicle. Surely lighter than a Chevy S-10 or Ford Ranger that everyone is converting. Many of these Dusters came with 6 cylinder engines.
I got a quote on an Advanced DC 9" & Curtis set-up from a well known supplier. They calculated that I could get 55-60 mph top speed with a range of 65 miles. I have since encountered a guy online that has converted basically the same car as mine with the Advanced DC using 120 volts. His real-world results were right at those calculations.
That would almost meet my goals. A range of 65 miles is great but I’d like to achieve a 75-80 mph top speed.
Now I have 2 questions if anyone can help:
At the same voltage, with the same controller, is the Warp9 more powerful than the Advanced DC fb1 4001A Motor?
How much would I gain over the above 120 volt results if I used 144 volts (or more)?
Bruce , That is a great idea to convert something so unique to the EV world as a Duster. Ya it would probably be slow and have a range of like 20 miles or so but who cares , you can cruise in your musclecar for free.
I am planning on converting my 1938 Chevy pickup to electric. Its not really a heavy truck at all and tons of room in the bed for batteries.
I hope you pull the trigger on this one.
Ok I’m crazy TOO for all the same reasons
I’ve owned a toyota supra for the past 12 years . I’ve modified my turbo supra to a pinch over 300 HP . toyota is working on or has worked on a 400 hp hybrid .
i don’t care about a heater or A/C (targa top summer car) my trip to work is about 2 miles so range isn’t too much of an issue . I’m new and trying to figure out if i need to fish or cut bait http://www.evalbum.com has supra listed and I’ve emailed the guy , he’s got
alot of information and he’s done an EV conversion before. I’ve emailed the Delorean Guy too …
We’re onto something
[QUOTE=MoparGarage;3592]Well, I’d be interested in hearing what you think WOULD work. I came on this forum because I thought I might learn something from experienced, helpful people instead of being discouraged by 2 out of 3 replies with no helpful information. Criticism CAN be constructive - or it can just be criticism.[/QUOTE]
Sorry to discourage you but you are wanting the best of all worlds. You have to give and take. Unlike a gas car you can’t add more power without increasing weight. Your wanting a 4000+ lbs car to be fairly fast on electricity. You would need a big motor high voltage and a big battery pack. You can make an electric car fast but it has to be light and will have no range. You can make range but it will be light and not very fast. If you just make it heavy it will be slow with no range. Your setup wouldnt be bad in a car half the weight but if you must. I would strip the car of everything not needed. I mean gut the whole car. The put the lightest narrowest wheels possible, remove any toe from the front end, replace fluids with full synthetics, belly pan, any aerodynamic improvements you can make. Then be ready just incase it is as fast as an old VW rabbit and only gets 25 miles per charge. Hopefully it will be better but it may not.
[QUOTE=Seafarer12;3633]Sorry to discourage you but you are wanting the best of all worlds. You have to give and take. Unlike a gas car you can’t add more power without increasing weight. Your wanting a 4000+ lbs car to be fairly fast on electricity. You would need a big motor high voltage and a big battery pack. You can make an electric car fast but it has to be light and will have no range. You can make range but it will be light and not very fast. If you just make it heavy it will be slow with no range. Your setup wouldnt be bad in a car half the weight but if you must. I would strip the car of everything not needed. I mean gut the whole car. The put the lightest narrowest wheels possible, remove any toe from the front end, replace fluids with full synthetics, belly pan, any aerodynamic improvements you can make. Then be ready just incase it is as fast as an old VW rabbit and only gets 25 miles per charge. Hopefully it will be better but it may not.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Seafarer for those suggestions.
I have been studying and learning a lot before I begin this project. From what I have learned, I will be comparable in weight to a typical Chevy S-10 conversion when I am done - about 4000#. A 120-144v set-up similar to what I mentioned in my first post seems to be common in many S-10s (and also a Plymouth similar to mine that I saw.) The common numbers for all of those vehicles seem to be about 60 mph top speed and 50 miles range.
Ok, so here are my questions. Is there any reason why I wouldn’t attain something close to those numbers with the same system and same total weight? I would be perfectly happy with that range but I’d really like to bump the speed up a bit. What is the most economical way to do that? Would a higher voltage (say 156v or 168v and compatible controller) with the Warp9 accomplish that for me?
Yes, I do expect to have to remove weight from the car to enhance my results. Fiberglass hood, fenders, trunk lid, even bumpers are available. The driveline is first though, and I’ll work from that baseline.
Now that is a cool idea… I too have been into Mopar Muscle for the past 25 years… I know NOTHING about EV vehicles and have just joined here because of curosity… I love to work on cars and have been contemplating an EV conversion myself for a commute car…
Anyway, good luck and don’t over look the obvious… Put that Duster on a diet! Try and find a Feather Duster Hood, trunk lid and bumpers (Aluminum). Also, if you have an 8 3/4 rear in that thing pull it and find a ligher 7 1/4 somewhere…
[QUOTE=Haney;3679]Now that is a cool idea… I too have been into Mopar Muscle for the past 25 years… I know NOTHING about EV vehicles and have just joined here because of curosity… I love to work on cars and have been contemplating an EV conversion myself for a commute car…
Anyway, good luck and don’t over look the obvious… Put that Duster on a diet! Try and find a Feather Duster Hood, trunk lid and bumpers (Aluminum). Also, if you have an 8 3/4 rear in that thing pull it and find a ligher 7 1/4 somewhere…[/QUOTE]
Thanks Haney! I appreciate the feedback from a fellow Mopar person. I am working on the “diet” right now. I forgot about the Feather Duster Aluminum bumpers. I was looking at fiberglass bumpers, hood, fenders, and trunk lid. Major weight savings there at a reasonable price. I would rather have aluminum bumpers though.
With those items replaced and lightened, the Duster will easily be comparable in weight to many of the “common” conversion vehicles - but with WAY more COOL IMO.
It does have an 8 3/4 rear end in it, but I do have a spare 7 1/4. Big weight difference there too. The smaller rear has very small brakes though and I’m a little worried about the stopping of all those batteries. I’m still considering that modification.
just curious
what is the max gross vehicle weight of your duster . my supra has a max of 4460 . important to point out that max GVW isn’t really about how much the car weights as much as it is about how much weight the car can support safely . anyone wondering about the mGVW can find the information on a metal stamp in the door frame or on the door
"metal stamp shows signs of owners age . it’s a paper stamp now "
[QUOTE=ddmcse;3684]just curious
what is the max gross vehicle weight of your duster . my supra has a max of 4460 . important to point out that max GVW isn’t really about how much the car weights as much as it is about how much weight the car can support safely . anyone wondering about the mGVW can find the information on a metal stamp in the door frame or on the door[/QUOTE]
I only have a sticker that says “max capacity 950lbs”. The manuals etc. list the vehicle weight as 3200# but I don’t know if that is curb weight or what.
I know those batteries are hefty but remember you are losing an iron motor , radiator , exhaust system and a tank full of fuel.
You can also use a space saver spare.
[QUOTE=machinist.212;3690]I know those batteries are hefty but remember you are losing an iron motor , radiator , exhaust system and a tank full of fuel.
You can also use a space saver spare.[/QUOTE]
Lead weighs a lot more than iron. Say you get a decent size battery pack your looking at 1000 lbs in batteries. Thats about how much a Cummins in a Dodge truck weighs. The only plus side is you can spread the weight around.
i have heard there are 3 things in the ev world. I think they are range , acceleration, speed. You can only have 2 at any time! range is realisticly 50% of the true range or you will kill your batteries fast. So if you could go 50 miles on a charge you only want to go 25 or you’l seriously shorten your battery life. Anything above 45 mph is very subject to rolling resistance and aerodynamics. Skinny rock hard tires and very low to the ground is your best bet.
