Motor ratings

EV Small Talk
1
  • quick version* Looking at ac motor ratings, i’ve found a few nice ones with continuous use ratings, but some have" compressor use" written on them as well, now would this be opposed to a true continuous use motor- unsuitable for an ev?

I’m building an electric bike, and just scanning through components to see if i want AC or DC at the moment. i live in vancouver, so my options kind of suck. I have access to dc controllers and batteries up the wazoo, but no DC motors over 1hp. at the same time i’m a hydraulic technician and have access to loads of ac AC motors going on hundreds of hp, but no AC controllers or reliable inversion methods on a suitable scale…

any advice?

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[QUOTE=rangerx52;251]* quick version* Looking at ac motor ratings, i’ve found a few nice ones with continuous use ratings, but some have" compressor use" written on them as well, now would this be opposed to a true continuous use motor- unsuitable for an ev?

I’m building an electric bike, and just scanning through components to see if i want AC or DC at the moment. i live in vancouver, so my options kind of suck. I have access to dc controllers and batteries up the wazoo, but no DC motors over 1hp. at the same time i’m a hydraulic technician and have access to loads of ac AC motors going on hundreds of hp, but no AC controllers or reliable inversion methods on a suitable scale…

any advice?[/QUOTE]

ebay :smiley: totally serious. just shop arround on there and you are sure to find something in due time

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So can you hook me up with a 200 or 300 hp AC? How much? I’m talking to a guy about getting a controller built to handle 2000 amps and around 250 watts.

Cheers.

4

Do you mean an ac motor to replace an ICE of 200-300 hp or an ac motor of 200-300 hp?

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[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;254]So can you hook me up with a 200 or 300 hp AC? How much? I’m talking to a guy about getting a controller built to handle 2000 amps and around 250 watts.

Cheers.[/QUOTE]

The motor in the Killacycle bike makes more HP than that. There’s no telling how much its batteries cost.

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[QUOTE=Lazlow;262]Do you mean an ac motor to replace an ICE of 200-300 hp or an ac motor of 200-300 hp?[/QUOTE]

No. I mean a motor to replace a 400 hp ICE. It would be hard to get the attention of the muscle car guys with the equivalent of a 200-300 hp ICE. I’d probably end up hanged if I did that. :wink:

Not looking to beat the Killacycle, just want to have equal or greater power than original. Besides, the Killacycle’s weight is probably like 90% power system weight whereas I’d be 30% power system weight.

1/4 mi. performance like White Zombie would be okay if I could get a 60+ mi range.

Cheers

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[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;271]No. I mean a motor to replace a 400 hp ICE. It would be hard to get the attention of the muscle car guys with the equivalent of a 200-300 hp ICE. I’d probably end up hanged if I did that. ;)[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that electric motors produce more torque than horsepower, and it’s all available at 0 rpm.

The two motors White Zombie uses are advertised as making 20 hp each and yet White Zombie is making 770 lb/ft of torque (available instantaneously) and eating Vipers (I think that’s the 2nd gen 500 HP Viper too).

[QUOTE=inSANe DIEGO;271]
Not looking to beat the Killacycle, just want to have equal or greater power than original. Besides, the Killacycle’s weight is probably like 90% power system weight whereas I’d be 30% power system weight.

1/4 mi. performance like White Zombie would be okay if I could get a 60+ mi range.

Cheers[/QUOTE]

IIRC Killacycle’s pack is 160 lbs. I’m guessing the driver is 150 or more and the frame/tires/wheels/etc are another 150 at least. That puts the batteries in the 30% range.

Again, IIRC, White Zombie is around 50% battery by weight (more machine, less man). Zombie uses Hawker Aero batteries though which are probably not anywhere near as good as the nanotech A123 cells Killacycle uses.

I don’t know what the Zombie’s range is. Wayland has another Datsun which gets 20-25 miles reliably but it doesn’t appear to be set up as well as the Zombie is. I wouldn’t be surprised if White Zombie could go 60 miles on a full charge. I don’t think it would be 60 miles of spirited driving though.

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Yeah, I figured I was gonna open a small can of worms there. That’s kinda why I wrote “equivalent”. Everyone seems to focus so much on hp and not on torque. It’s like nitrous kits. They are rated as 300, 350, 500, etc HORSEPOWER kits, but what they really make is torque. I know a guy that used to run around on the street with short 25 inch dia. tires on his Camaro, but then when he got a race, he switch out to some monster tall slicks. He knew that the nitrous was going to give him a better holeshot due to the torque increase so that’s why he ran the tall tires - higher gear ratio.

Zombie’s “low” hp rating with HIGH torque rating could explain the slightly lower trap speeds for ETs in the low 12s. From I remember a convention ICE car that ran low 12s would see trap speeds more like 112 - 115mph indicating more top end grunt. When it comes to it though, on the street torque is king.

I’ll rephrase by saying, I’d like to be able to get my Camaro into the 12s. Around 12.80 would be nice. Faster would be nicer, but I’m sure that’s where it will start to hurt my range if I want to stay under a certain weight. My Camaro with it’s original 350 ran a low to mid 14 so high 12s and 60 mile range would be enough for me. If I could go 100 miles on a charge, but had to goto a less powerful motor thus dropping me into the low 13s to do it I’d be happy. My main challenge will be getting the car in at or under the original curb weight- 3000lbs. Can you say “steady diet of fiberglass and possibly lexan”? :slight_smile:

Any idea how much Wayland’s power system weighs? I figure a Warp11 and the same battery setup might do fairly well.

I’m gonna have to start a planning thread for my car.

Cheers

[QUOTE=Jack the R;275]Keep in mind that electric motors produce more torque than horsepower, and it’s all available at 0 rpm.

The two motors White Zombie uses are advertised as making 20 hp each and yet White Zombie is making 770 lb/ft of torque (available instantaneously) and eating Vipers (I think that’s the 2nd gen 500 HP Viper too).

IIRC Killacycle’s pack is 160 lbs. I’m guessing the driver is 150 or more and the frame/tires/wheels/etc are another 150 at least. That puts the batteries in the 30% range.

Again, IIRC, White Zombie is around 50% battery by weight (more machine, less man). Zombie uses Hawker Aero batteries though which are probably not anywhere near as good as the nanotech A123 cells Killacycle uses.

I don’t know what the Zombie’s range is. Wayland has another Datsun which gets 20-25 miles reliably but it doesn’t appear to be set up as well as the Zombie is. I wouldn’t be surprised if White Zombie could go 60 miles on a full charge. I don’t think it would be 60 miles of spirited driving though.[/QUOTE]

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You should read the White Zombie History page. Wayland’s got all the info in there on how much his various battery packs weighed, how much the car weighed, and how it ran as he developed it.

I wouldn’t be too worried about 13’s. What you do with the batteries you can afford now will only be the beginning of your cars evolution. There are many companies developing Li-ion cells for cars now and I expect progress to be rapid. In a few years you can upgrade to a “stage II” battery kit and have the range and performance of your dreams.

When you start your development thread, let us know how much your car weighs without the 350, gas tank, exhaust, etc.

What can you afford in the way of batteries? How many do you think you can get on board?