HELP! - Leaking spline shaft after Lithium upgrade and new spline shaft kit installed

GEM Forum
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I completed my SDI-22 lithium install last month (with Magic Magnet) on my 2008 e4. Just prior to that I had my 7.0hp GE motor rebuilt and purchased a new gearbox spline shaft kit from @Old_Houseboater because my original seal was weeping oil. The kit contained a new shaft, bearing, seal, and motor bump stop. I’ve driven the car around 29 KM total (switched to KM due to the Magic Magnet). All was well until last night I noticed a big leak on my floor coming from the gearbox. I removed the motor and saw a complete mess.

I’ve gotten the car up to as high as 40 MPH on a flat section of road (indicated as 40 KPH because of the Magic Magnet). Is this speed too high for this gearbox? Why did my brand new spline shaft seal fail? Did the faster rotation of the shaft damage the seal? Is there greater pressure in the gearbox now that the gears are spinning faster (not sure if that’s a thing or not)? My original shaft had a sealed bearing, but the new shaft I purchased has an open bearing which requires a separate rubber seal.

@Inwo, @AssyRequired, @LithiumGods – you guys all played a part in my rebuild so I would appreciate your thoughts if you have any.

Sean

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Sorry, no experience on my end. I have not heard of high speed oil leak issues.
Over filled maybe?
@Old_Houseboater may have some ideas.
40mph may indeed be to high for Ge motor, but should not be related to blowing oil past the seal.
Is seal correct? I don’t know which way is preferred. Lip in or lip out.

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I followed all the instructions from @Old_Houseboater regarding the shaft seal installation. I haven’t driven the car much at all (only 29 KM), so it took hardly any time to fail. If you look closely at the photos, it appears the leak is heaviest at the outer perimeter of the seal compared to the part where the seal touches the shaft. I used some high-temp grease to lubricate the seal before install which is probably what the goop is seeping out. Also the fact it is dark brown with hardly any use tells me the oil may be getting hot. The gearbox oil is fresh 80W90 (conventional) and should not be over-filled. The car was perfectly level and I filled it up until it started dripping out of the fill hole.

I only hit 40 MPH a couple of times just to see what the car could do, but I’d say I normally hold 30-35 MPH.

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It has nothing to do with speed. Those bearings are rated for more rpm than that. Never seen a gearbox leak from doing high speed. When you say you filled it, from the rubber gommet next to the spline or the lower on on the outside of gearbox?

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I filled the gearbox from underneath. I removed the rubber drain plug, siphoned the old fluid out, pumped new fluid in, and stopped when the new fluid started to drip out the fill hole. Again, the car was perfectly level.

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Is that copper anti-sieze you used to install the TC seal? That could be the cause. Typically youjust use a little oil on the outer edge. The “rubber” still needs to seal against the metal.

Good news, TC seals are cheap to replace. Nothing should be damaged by this incident.

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@JarJarJava – The copper anti-seize was only used where the spline shaft mates to the motor. I did not use it on the rubber seal. But with that motor fan spinning around at such high speed, any kind of fluid in there just gets splattered everywhere.

I spoke with one of the reps at Spicer (now Schaefer Driveline), the manufacturer of my gearbox. I inquired about purchasing a new bearing, shaft, and seal (which he wouldn’t sell me), but he did go over the installation process. He told me to lubricate the rubber seal with bearing grease to help seat the seal. Could that be the problem? Does the seal need to be dry against the metal housing? The seal is just in there with a pressure fit and it took a few whacks with a hammer and large socket to get it to seat properly. I know it is going to be a real bugger to get out, and I don’t suspect it will be reusable. They weren’t that cheap . . . $25 for a little ring of rubber.

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Grease is fine.

When you whacked the seal, did you go full Good Fellas or just a gentle whacking? If you crushed the facing, then that could be an issue.

The seal will come out easily with a pick, but yeah, its not going to be reuseable.

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I probably shouldn’t have used the term “whacked.” The seal was too tight to just press in with my hands, so I had to place a large socket on the face of the seal and “tap” on the socket with a hammer so it went in squarely.

Bada Bing …,

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and that socket needed to have the contact surface such that it was putting pressure on the thin metal ring which is the outside bearing seat. If it was not then it likely deformed the outer ring which seals against the transmission housing. Some sockets are beveled so you have to watch out for that when used on seal installations.

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Don’t those tranny’s take only about .5 qt of oil?

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@dougl - yes, there isn’t much oil in there given it made such a mess.

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I’ve driven the car around 29 KM total (switched to KM due to the Magic Magnet)

It is a tough concept to grasp but even though your display now reads km, the numbers you see are not km, but now actually miles. Due to the new calibration the speed is mph and the distance you traveled are miles. Verify this by checking with a GPS app and your phone.

This does not apply to total numbers previously recorded before your mod in the odo (but nobody pays attention to those anyway).

Wow- That is an incredible amount of weird goo that came out of there. I agree - It looks like it is probably the high temp grease that worked itself out.

jrjava:
If you crushed the facing, then that could be an issue.

I agree with this. If you had to give it too big of a whack it might have tweaked the seal. It’s not like these are pressed up against an inner lip. This seal gets tapped up against the retaining ring.

To be honest, I hate the upper seal arrangement. I think it might be time to revisit what is going on up there.

Wipe all that out and post another clear picture of the seal if you can.

The wet line tells another story. It is for sure leaking. The oil color is not from hot oil. It would take some incredible loads and time to do that. I suspect it is mix from your grease, mix from the old oil left in the case, or just washing down the internal components of the case.

Spitballing here-
I see you have a bellows style breather. That essentially makes your box perfectly sealed. In theory the bellows should expand/contract as the air inside warms up and cools. Unless it is quite flexible, This might be cause for some pressure to build in your box?

I think I have a link to a late model bellows that can be put on there. I’ll see if I can find it.

Maybe take that off and put on a breather hose? Loop that up and over the top of your motor and down the other side. Even better would be to install a clear fuel filter on that hose so you can see if anything wants to burp it’s way up out of there.

An alternate would be to remove the bellows, compress it, then push it back on. This might load it with a bit of neg pressure(vacuum) on it (depending on how big the bellows is- can’t tell from the pic). See how long it takes to expand back.

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you can also try with both sealed bearing and a separate rubber seal

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That was what I originally planned @Gem_e2 . However I was advised against that. I can’t remember what the exact reason was unfortunately.

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You put the seal in backwards. There was a instruction sheet in the package that said install the seal with the lips facing the bearing, The factory seal is installed the other way, Email me and I will send you another seal

rodneyadiehl@aol.com

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I could not see the little spring seal tensioner so it looked like the seal was distorted but now that you mention it, it does look like it’s installed backwards. The outside should me a much smoother surface.
Good eye!

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… must resist…

snicker

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Nicely done Rodney. I couldnt even tell that on my phone.

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This is no longer a dual lip seal? That explains it then.

@JarJarJava - I put that right up on a t-stand for you.

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