Very impressive, not just the great mods and your vehicle but to know there is a financial advisor who actually knows how to make something.
Congratulations.
The motor arrived from D&D! It is model ES-132-68 and was manufactured 10 days ago.
Here are the three motors lined up for comparison.
Ride-4-Fun motor is 9 1/2" long
Stock GE motor is 11 9/16" long
New D&D motor is 11 1/2" long
Measurement of the body of the motor body excluding speed sensor & wire.
Installation ended up fine with only one minor adjustment needed. The mounting bolts had the motor lined up either rolled forward slightly or rolled back slightly with the lugs not facing straight up. One of the âFâ wires was about 1/4" too short to reach. Fortunately, I was able to swap the two âFâ wires and it worked out fine. One was about 1/2" longer. I took off the labels to avoid confusion and they are clearly labeled on the gray controller box. I did have to apply new silicone around the âFâ wire connections to the controller as it had before.
The black plastic air scoop fits fine and with the motor rolled back, the wires are somewhat better protected.
It is pouring rain tonight so I will wait to test drive it tomorrow. I will test first as is, then add the Magic Magnet as before.
This thread mentions the same motor but with no indication of actually installing one. Other than âthe guy in Floridaâ I may be kind of the Guinea pig here.
Based on comments from @Old_Houseboater it looks like it may be a good thing I opted for a D&D performance motor because of the higher potential RPMs at around 30 MPH. Remember, my eL XD has the 14.76:1 gears and bigger stock tires.
One question: Are higher RPMs only an issue under load on flats or uphill vs. coasting downhill @ 35 mph for example?
I also found some discussion about the motor here:
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-ezgo/95868-sepex-series-rookie-question.html
They talk about 8hp and 16.5 (at 48v) peak and typically higher torque in a longer motor. How does voltage affect HP? The motor label says it can operate at 36, 48, 72 volts but does not show HP.
Elsewhere on this site they discuss heat of this motor @ 48v.
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-ezgo/102983-high-torque-motor-getting-hot-will-bigger-controller-2.html
A couple of positive takeaways from this as it applies to my setupâŚ
Just a technical expansion on the highlighted comments.
The Ohmâs Law formula for power that is usually seen is I x E = W. (Amps times Volts equals Watts)
However the Ohmâs Law formula that tells the tale best is: I² x R = W. (Amps Squared times Ohms equals Watts ---- or Amps times Amps times Ohm equals Watts)
*Basically, by increasing the pack voltage from 36V to 48V (a 33.3% increase) you reduce the amps by 33.3%, but reduce the heat by 66.7% (times the efficiency of the motor at the same RPM and under the same mechanical load) *
In other words the relationship between Amps and Volts is linear while the relationship between Amps and heat is exponential.
- Good because my ~80v should run much cooler. Iâll get a heat gun just because it would be good data to have.
*What gear ratio is your differential? *
If you have stock gears (12.44:1) going to 14.96:1 will almost offset the heat problems caused by the 23" tires.
- I have 14.76 with similar tire size, so good also.
Not sure, but I donât think the bms-24t uses the temp. sensor input for other than display and alarm.
The inputs could then be used for other functions. Such as controller and motor temperature.
I like that idea! Thanks.
First impression of the motor: oh shoot, why am I going forward? Apparently, the rotation of this motor is opposite of stock. Fortunately, I remembered the label on the toasted R4F motor that said to swap the âFâ wires for CW vs CCW rotation. So it turns out that motor was good for something after all. Ironic because I had swapped the wires during install for length. So it is F1 to F2 and F2 to F1.
First impressions take two (only the motor swap at this point, no MM): It did not seem much different from the stock GE motor. It is slightly quieter and very smooth acceleration and deceleration. It has, perhaps, more apparent pick up and acceleration 0-15 MPH then a more gentle roll-off of that acceleration curve as approaching 25 MPH. Unfortunately it actually seemed weaker near the top end vs. stock. It does not get overly hot. After a 6 mile loop at full speed, it measured 130 degrees on the body of the motor.
Then I installed the Magic Magnet. Top speed on flats was about 29 MPH. The stock motor did closer to 32 MPH on the same stretch. Of course the speed sensor magnet did split during this test with the old motor. Now I am wondering if that was just a coincidence or if it was really spinning too fast because of my 14.76:1 gears. The RPM rating of the stock motor is the one thing that still has me looking at the D&D motors which will reportedly tolerate higher RPMs.
Iâm not sure what I am missing here but it is not an upgrade as is. Does this motor need more available current (higher amperage)? @Inwo advised in another thread that higher amperage can lead to more complications. On paper it should be easily beating the stock 7.0 motor. Looking for theories or opinions, please. I will have to wait until Monday to talk to Vic to see what solutions he can offer.
Looking at d&d site they donât share much data on their motors.
Did they promise more than 25mph?
How tall are your tires?
Can you find safe rpm limit? 5,000 rpm maintained is what Iâve heard for stock motors. I doubt d&d wants you over 6,000.
You can force it higher with more voltage or less field current, but gear change may make more sense.
Thunderstruck has a performance curve for 72v d&d motor.
Only goes up to <5,000 rpm. Nothing I can find hints at higher speed.
Tnx to @Old_Houseboater
-
Yes the data on the motors is hard to come by. I bought the motor on the recommendation of Vic at D&D during about a 10 minute phone call. There is a bit more information in this Amazon listing:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XNSKWS6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1RMJN1BDI6QEK&psc=1
Aparently the Green option of the Blue motor is High torque, lower speed, to prioritize range. The Red option of the Blue motor is high torque and speed at the expense of range. Thatâs not confusing at all.
Until now I was not even aware of this variation and Vic may have simply misunderstood my goals. You and I know that my battery pack is plenty oversized. My #1 priority is pulling power: This is supposed to be the âhayrideâ & yard work machine. Ironically the torque motor I currently have does not climb hills as well as the stock motor. The only thing an âupgraded performance motorâ needs to do is exceed the stock capabilities. -
They will not even discuss higher than 25 MPH or really any electrical variations, I think because of warranty.
-
My tires are stock (for eL XD) 23.2" and I have the 14.76:1 gears. The chart you are referencing is actually the reason I became concerned about RPMs with my gearbox (after my magnet blew in the stock motor at 32 MPH - possibly coincidence)
-
The higher RPM rating of D&D is mentioned in discussion on the forum, for example:
Ride-4-Fun touts higher RPMs an higher temperature tolerances too:
- â6,000 RPM Sustained Operation Rated, with up 7,000 RPM operation (25% higher than other performance motors, and 50% higher than stock motors).â
- âPatented design delivers more power, generates more torque, increases brush life, and reduces heat which results in higher speeds, quicker acceleration, and increased reliability/motor life.â
I would be content anywhere over 30 MPH on flats.
Finally, I did not find the ES-132-68 Motor that I have referenced on this site initially but now I found that @grantwest actually has had some experience with it discussing a âNew Torque Motorâ Check the picture, it has the same model #.
I would be EXTREMELY interested in any further insight you have, Grant.
Really, I hope this discussion will help others who may be trying to find the best combination to unlock the potential of their GEMs too.
(otherwise I would not be so damn wordy and nerdy 
)
Looks like I should really not exceed 32.5 MPH for any length of time.
Thanks @Old_Houseboater from me too!
Thanks for sharing, Iâm going through a similar exercise where Iâm converting my 2013 E6s to lithium and need a new motor. I have the original 12.44:1 gearbox in the car now but I also have a 10.35:1 gearbox to use. I plan to buy new wheels and tires so I have all these variables to consider. Its nice to have all this flexibility but also a bit hard to figure out the best combination for my goals. @LithiumGods was nice enough to loan me a 7 HP Advanced motor so I can get some baselines to reference and build on.
In my search for a new motor I also contacted D&D and have exchanged a handful of emails with Eric over the past month. He has been recommending the same ES-132-68 torque motor you have now.
The other âspeedâ motor is the ES-132-69. @grantwest has the same ES-132-68 motor as you in a cart he built for someone and @Jb0389 has the other one (ES-132-69). Those are the only two folks I could find with firsthand experience with these motors.
Iâm not yet sold that the torque motor is the best fit for me but D&D seems pretty confident in that it is. While trying to understand the differences between these two motors Eric said the ES-132-69 motor has higher rpm and current draw and lower torque output. Itâs most often used in 48 volt LSV type vehicles. He said since I will be operating at 96 volts he wouldnât suggest the ES-132-69 motor. The ES-132-68 would be the better motor for overall performance and run time for my application. He suggested adjusting the field current to find the right torque and range balance and also said the peak rpm for both motors is 6,500.
Thanks @RS_E6 for the additional information. My current inclination is that with my 14.76:1 gears the âspeedâ of the motor should be the priority because the gears should take care of the torque to some degree. I am thinking of it like pedaling a bicycle very fast in a low gear to climb a hill. I originally talked with Vic and he was in kind of a hurry. I asked if he needed to know gear ratio and he said no.
Again, I am also fine with sacrificing some range because I have a 160ah pack with a highest SOC under stock tolerances @ 82v.
It may be wise to adjust the dip switches on the Magic Magnet to enforce the 32 MPH if possible. How do the settings work on the MM @Inwo?
Also, does high RPMs have the same potential for damage under essentially no load going down a hill?
Thanks guys.
One more inquiry, how would one adjust field current?
Turn all switches to off for minimum speed increase of a couple mph.
Switches are additive in binary fashion. 1 adds a little more.
then 2, then 1+2, etc.
@Jb0389 said that D&D told him he had to get the ES-132-69 speed motor due to his 14.7:1 gearbox. They told him the ES-132-68 torque motor would not even go 25mph with his low gears. My guess is they were focused on your need to tow and just immediately went to the torque motor.
My understanding is you can adjust the field current through programming the controller. I got the data cable and software from @Inwo and have peeked at it but Iâm still getting my batteries sorted so I havenât started modifying the controller yet. Iâd be really interested to hear how the torque motor behaves under different field current settings.
Careful with field current and watch for motor heating. Field current is needed to keep motor happy.
At one time I researched a hardware fix that would switch motor into speed mode by reducing field current. Wasnât much interest at the time.
Yes, Rodney calls it grenading. I have not seen it myself.
Magic Magnet, simple & effective, sold at Inwoâs garage, get yours today while supplies last.
I will tinker with the dip switch settings when I get the motor swapped around again.
Thanks @RS_E6 & @Jb0389. I have an ES-132-69 on the way. I talked with Vic again today and he came up with about the same math for RPMs. The 14.76:1 gears were definitely the critical flaw with the first selection. He basically said it might still be a bit of trial & error or tweaking settings but says it should at least help with speed.
He said many of the ones they have successfully used the 168 version were in E6 models with 12:1 gears in your typical setting of housing developments in Florida or on a college campus, etc. My use case, rural surroundings, and the utility truck itself are decidedly different.
If you like math.
All switches off = 15/16 counts go thru to speedometer
#1 on = 14/16
#2 on = 13/16
#2+1 = 12/16
#3 = 11/16
#3+1 = 10/16 40mph reads 40kph
#3+2. = 9/16
#3+2+1=1/2. 50mph reads 25mph