Ok, so Rodney’s suggestion was on point. Thank you good sir, that was some solid advice. ( epoxy is good for 1500 psi. Who knew? Wow.) The epoxy fixed an issue I was having with one of the shocks. Another one ended up having a bad top oring. Not something I want to mess with.
I had 2 left that held air so I mounted them up for the second time.
I noticed they only barely lifted the gem. They mostly bottomed out 100% sitting still. Even after dumping almost 100psi into them they only came up a touch. Not nearly where they are supposed to sit. This tells me they must have virtually no oil in them.
I am cutting my losses. Even if I go buy the oil and do the labor and filling them and guessing how much, I still run the risk of having some shrapnel on the inside of them from the tapping and drilling I did. I feel like I am just running down an eternal tunnel.
For 120$ I bought 4 Monroe Max-Air Air Shock Absorbers. These are used on both Goldwings and Corvettes. These are super cheap and brand new with no issues. I have a dual chamber air leveling kit coming too, which from what I can tell can do both left and right and front to back leveling. MOre on that later. I want to install it and make sure it’s a good solution before I recommend it.
There will be a video on this project for sure. Too much blood sweat and many many tears.
I had a temper tantrum. I have never used air shocks before so I had to work my way through some minor issues. I had a bit of an embarrassing revelation but its all about learning right?
I got the Monroes in the mail on Sunday and installed one of them. It bottomed out under the load of the GEM as well, so I of course gave it air.
I gave it more air.
I gave it what I thought was about 80-90 psi and the thing was barely lifting the vehicle and this was getting me annoyed and concerned.
I’ve been using my air compressor and limiting it to 80 pds or so. I remember reading people saying that they tend to run about 40-80 pds and I wanted to keep from popping any seals. My handheld automotive air gauge only read to 60pds so I decided to bust out my bicycle hand pump because I knew it had a proper schrader valve on it and a more accurate air gauge.
Once I pumped past 100 psi the shock started lifting things. FINALLY I see some progress.
I had to hit 150 psi (which I know is too much air)to make the GEM appear to be sitting at the right height, but this was progress. I even put 125psi in the Goldwing shock on the other side and low and behold, it came up to proper height as well.
Lesson learned? Put more air in the shock.
Now I have to decide if I want to mess with the old shocks or just put the new ones in all around. Right now I’m looking forward to airing down a touch to see how these ride at a more reasonable pressure.
Air shocks aren’t air suspension, are they?
Don’t you need to leave springs to support the car?
Or do they use an accumulator or tank for cushion?
I guess I don’t understand how they work.
Normally, but in this case people use these old corvette shocks which allow you to raise or lower the vehicle with air. They still provide the cushion and do stiffen things up when you go higher.
This guy shows how they work on his motorcycle. Same setup, just a different vehicle IMO.
Matt: I’m thinking the Monroe “shocks” you got are dampeners? Not shocks per say. Most cars have a coil or leaf spring to do All of the weight.
The air shock works as a (Dampener) example car hits a bump the leaf spring or coil takes the hit but springs will do exactly what their name says they will “Spring back” the Monroe’s you got slow down that spring reaction. They are not meant to hold weight only to slow down the cars suspension. A true “Air Ride” shock has both internal spring and a oil damper , with the addition of a Air spring that adjusts or fine tuned the ride. If the Monroe shock you got is a traditional thin looking car shock, that’s not gonna do the trick. You see how Air Shocks are much thicker and bigger diameter. Sorry your having a issues. So to be clear you have a few different types of shocks.
Air Shocks (dampener only)
Air Ride (shock and dampener in one)
Coil Overs. (External coil spring internal oil dampener)
Ride tech makes a Hybrid.
It’s a coil over with a Air/Oil Shock internal, (big $)
My advice, toss the ones you have out OR if you have more time then $ just rebuild them.
Or get the longer softer STOCK 2013 shocks.
I think they are close to 13 inches eye to eye.
They are $350 from gem car parts direct. Do a search for “long shocks”
You are absolutely right @grantwest. I got overwhelmed and went click crazy.
The Goldwing shocks DO have the internal spring(right?), the Monroes do not.
That puts me back on track at least. I need to put in the Goldwing shocks and then see how things shake out. I might keep the Monroes for for a regular car project
Yes the Gold wings or Porgressive shocks have a internal spring. I have been told on a Porgressive 416 it’s a 150 Pound Spring weight. And just to be clear
For a stock gem with heavy flooded battery’s the gold wing or Progressive SHOCKs are NO GOOD they are way To soft.
If some one could make a 200+ Lb and higher internal spring for the Progressive Shocks they could be tuned or sprung for a gem of any weight.
Fox,or King, and or Works Shocks will work with you to build and or tune any of their shocks. But your gonna spend at least $1000 for 2 shocks and the different springs needed to fine tune them. They said they can guess the spring your gonna need and that you would test them and then send back the spring to get a harder or softer spring until you get the ride you like
I’ve only put one Monroe on and I’m only playing with the front right now so I’ll swap that one back to a Goldwing, put more air in it, (I was only trying maybe 60pds last time) and report back.
On the bright side, my plumbing is good. No leaks.
Looks like only one of my vintage shocks is leaking out of the top seal. That will definitely require a rebuild. I’ll do the rest as time allows. This is a good way to get a gauge of the condition of them and the fluid levels. I just need to suck it up and do it.
This video seems to sum it all up, albeit in a very one handed kinda way. Is this the one you used Grant?
Also, did you refill with the same oil or refresh that as well?
What’s the general consensus on what oil to use in these situations. I know Honda suggests ATF, but back in the mid 80s there weren’t any detergents in the mix like there are now, so I am thinking suspension oil is a better bet. Did suspension oil even exist back then?
Oil weight.
I know 15w is the suggestion, but I know you guys have mentioned body roll. Do you think a heavier value might counteract that a bit since we are probably a bit heavier than motorcycles? I was thinking 20w.
Heavier oil will increase the effective damping, in other words the forks will move up and down a little slower and feel stiffer.
Lighter weight oil will do the opposite, allowing the forks to move up and down faster and feel softer.
Coil overs?
$89/pair
Short stroke…
58psi factory pressue.
Dimension:
Total Length: 430mm (17")
Length of Eye to Eye Core: 400mm (15 3/4")
Eye Diameter(with bushing): 12mm
Eye Diameter(with bushing removed): 16mm
Eye Thickness: 21mm
Eye Maximum Tensile Strength: 2,000 Kgf
Spring Thickness: 7mm
Spring Width: 60mm
Working Stroke: 68mm
Spring Stiffness: 110 kg
Maximum load: 300 kg (660 lbs)
Air Reservoir: Adjustable
Factory Air Pressure: 0.4 Mpa
Maximum Air Pressure: 0.5 Mpa
Correct. 440pds for the ones that are 12" eye to eye.
I know the 2006 curb weight is 1271. Dropping 400 pds in lead acid and adding back 80 pds in lithium put’s it at roughly 950. Then add in my family which is roughly 400 pds and we are at 1350ish.
This means Inwo was correct, the longer ones would be needed. This all assumes the camber doesn’t go to ■■■■ when it’s fully loaded or unloaded.
The ones you ordered look like they will be harder than stock. You running the lead acid?
Oil doesn’t have anything to do with the weight capacity of the shock. Size of the piston is the control factor.
DO NOT Tee left and right sides together. When you go around a corner the car will roll unbelievably. Each shock has to work independently. Grant West went thru this entire exercise He ended up installing a custom anti sway bar to control the roll.
Some things to consider. Big diameter and low pressure = nice ride more roll. Small diameter and high pressure hard ride less roll. The term is “Spring Rate” Get expert advice if you can find it. Considerations : Weight - Length - Length of travel - Travel surface and other questions the supplier will need.
yep, I’m on board with you there. I think the discussion about the different kind of shocks made my comments a bit messy. I was talking about those gold coilovers when I was commenting about weight.
My comments about oil are for the old Goldwing shocks. The oil is for the dampening amount, or lack thereof in some cases. I think mine are totally out of oil, which is why they are not working.
I don’t plan on t-ing the air lines. Grant slid me that advice higher up somewhere or maybe in DM land. They make dual bladder pumps that work around that, and a check valve on either line could possibly resolve that too but that’s a few weeks down the line before I start messing with all that. I’ll stick with single lines and a hand pump until I figure out some of my current issues.
Thanks for the tips though, your advice is always welcome.
