2005 gem e85 wont go

Hi Inwo,

Thanks for helping me out again. I checked all the fuses and they are all good, no blown ones. Not sure how I check that the commands are getting through to the controller and how to fix the issue if the car is staying in neutral or a zero throttle.

Hello, Thanks for sticking with me on this issue, below are my findings.

  • Key on and pull the e-brake up there is no long steady Beep or any kind of beep, if I press on the throttle with the key on and the e-brake up there is a clunk sound and clunks again in a few seconds after the throttle is not pressed any longer.
    Key off and the e-brake is left down, a long steady Beep keeps going until I pull the e-brake up
  • Yes there is a sensor on the side of the brake reservoir - I disconnected the plug from the plastic reservoir and yes the brake light goes out. Plug the sensor back in and the brake light indicator goes back on.
  • Yes all wires for A1& A2 are connected correct
  • Yes all wires for F1 & F2 are plugged in correct
  • Voltage at POS and NEG terminals has a voltage of 75 V when the throttle is not pressed in, and goes down to 70.5 V when the throttle is pressed in
  • Voltage at A1 and A2 has a voltage of 43 when the throttle is not pressed in and goes up to 70.5 when the throttle is pressed in
  • Voltage at F1 & F2 has a voltage of 43 when the throttle is not pressed in and goes up to 70.5 when the throttle is pressed in

From A1 to A2 and F1 to F2? Then ohm out motor. Unlikely readings but possible. Motor will be running if volts at A and F, unless motor is open. ie. brushes.

Here are the voltages that command run and direction.

Awesome! Believe it or not this is progress!!

Brake light - Top off your brake reservoir and that pesky light should go out. If not- run with the sensor unplugged for now.

E-Brake handle - This sounds like it is working as designed. There are quite a few threads about the 2005 having the ability to drive away with it engaged. It apparently doesn’t have the hardware or wiring to sound the beeper like the later models. There may be a fix if you want to tinker with it. Otherwise, set it aside for now.

Volt checks - Right out of the gate there seems to be something off here. The no load voltage seems low for new batteries and the drop to 70V with pedal down is REALLY odd.

  • When was the last time you charged the car?
  • What batteries did you put in?
    -How long ago?
  • What charger do you have?
    -Do you know what charger profile it is set to?

As it sits now do a list 1-6 and write down the battery voltages. Plug in your charger, verify the lights on the side, You should also have the charge icon on the speedo/pod display. If you Key-on, brake off, you shouldn’t be able to drive away(again- checking PSID systems). Let it charge for a while and check voltages again to verify they are all coming up. Keep track of these numbers for later.


The results of the voltage check at A1 and A2 also bothers me. At rest (after a pedal down and back up) it should go back to 0 (zero). It sounds like your motor brushes may be stuck. What setting on your meter are you using?

As well as the readings at F1 and F2. Those don’t make sense either. Let me see if I can duplicate those numbers.

Can you send me pics of your wiring up front? I will pm you my email address.

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Hi Inwo,
On your diagram do I measure the voltages at the P7 at the 23 Pin wire harness hooked up to the controller or at the other end of the wire that corresponds with P7? Also the same question for P4,P5 and P6 checking for 72V at one of those Pins.

Test right at controller. Use a stick pin into the insulation or a sharp probe.
If you actually have voltage across A1 and A2 motor will run or brushes are stuck.
Disconnect A1 or A2, ohms across them on motor should be near zero.

Hi Inwo

I tested Voltage at P4,P5 and P6. P6 is the one that has 72V. I also did the ohm test across A1 & A2 and got an O.L reading so I don’t think there is any continuity there. I also did an ohm test across F1 & F2 and got 1 for the ohm reading. Maybe my motor is shot? If so is there a way to fix the connections between A1 & A2 or am I just looking at having to buy a new motor? Any other tests I can do on just the motor to see if it is dead?

That should be an easy one. Stuck brushes.
Open the motor and free up brushes so they slide easily.
Or send the motor to @Old_Houseboater for service.

Thanks Inwo,

If I can’t get to it tonight I will try tomorrow night or Saturday when all the Xmas stuff with the Fam is done and will let you know my status. Thanks again for all your help, I hope you and your family have a great Christmas and I will email you if I was able to free up the brushes.

Actually- this is great news. It means you are finally coming to an end of your issues instead of just guessing!

Bad news is that it might involve spending a bit more money(depending on your skill level and how much you want to get involved).

Yup - My SWAG is that your brushes are stuck (or fully worn out?) and not making contact with the armature inside the motor. It is totally fixable but probably not something that the beginner can tackle and it may involve some special tools. A guy named Andy just did this and posted pics on FBook gem forum. Here is the link to see if this is in your wheelhouse.

If you have time in the next couple of days, at least pull the motor (which you have to do anyway) and remove that band cover at the end of the motor. Get a good look inside there and maybe send me a few pics if you don’t understand what is going on in there. You could get lucky and they will only be slightly stuck. Unlucky would be really stuck. (the guy in the link above had to use a c-clamp to press out his brushes. They must have been scary tight!).

Option 2 - find someone in your area that can rebuild the motor for you. I have no idea what it will cost. I saw a comment elsewhere that sometimes it may cost as much as a new motor, but that was from a company that sells motors.

Option 3 - find a used motor. It just happens that there are currently TWO available from guys in this forum. Since they are from out of state, shipping will need to be added. Here is the link to the first post. Down at the last post you can find GrantKC has one also. Both of them sound like pulls from very low hour cars. This might be a viable option for you.

Option 4 - Ask yourself what are your plans for this car? You may want to take this time to upgrade to a higher Hp motor. But that will require reprogramming the controller(your favorite) for best performance.

When it comes to removing the motor-
*** Tip ****
Whenever you take a cable off any of the motor lugs you should use two wrenches(one below the cable end and one above). You might need to find a thin wrench to do this(which not everybody has). Don’t be tempted to just wrench that top nut off. It can spin the stud in it’s plastic insulator and crack the insulator. Same goes for tightening.
*** BACK IT UP WITH ANOTHER WRENCH!!! ***

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2005 has the “long” GE motor and IIRC, if you unbolt the bottom of the shock, you can swing it out of the way and unbuckle the vent band on the back of the motor and get at the brushes with the motor in place. Pulling the hood off also helps with access. No need to take motor apart unless you have a bad bearing.

LithiumGods and GrantWest have both posted details on clearing stuck brushes and cleaning the holders. A thin pointed lady’s metal nail file, CRC lectra-clean and patience work well. Don’t scratch up the inside of the holders or you’ll keep having problems.

If you pull the motor, have a spare resilient bumper on hand, you’ll need it. You can buy a bag of them for like $12 from an online golf cart shop or pay $10 to have a single one from NEVA. Once it’s out, check the gearbox input shaft and oil seal, If they are worn or leaking @Old_Houseboater sells replacements.

Here’s an old thread of mine on pulling a clapped out “short” GE from 2000-2004, that ended up turning into input shafts, motor disassembly both short and long - lots of contributions & pics from others, and speedo magnets and how not to fvck them up by even slightly over greasing and hydraulicing the shaft into the bearing while putting stuff back together…

If you have stuck brushes you need to pull the motor to service them. Unsticking brushes requires care or you break the brush holder. I have developed techniques to service any GEM motor without causing damage and in most cases not require machining of the commutator. My motors will go 5 years without further service. (Except in coastal areas)

Rodney

That’s kinda what I was thinking. It is so dang easy to pull a motor out why not pull it to work on it? It would be much easier working on a bench with lots of room vs on the ground and under the car half the time.

How easy is it to crack a brush(tapping, poking, excessively prying on it)?

If your careful and have the proper tools it can be done. It took me a couple of years to get proficient repairing GEM motors. I scrapped some motors learning how to do it right. If I reveal all my techniques I will compromise my income. I have sucesfully done in excess of 50 units.

My customers are satisfied with my work because, once repaired and adjusted, my motors keep working.

Rodney

Hi Old_Houseboater
I saw loose wires inside the motor so I ended up just taking the motor all the way out. After taking off the cap i noticed the loose wires were from one of the brush’s that had been broken off. Looks like one of the brush holders had been completely broken off and so the brush was just laying in the motor cap with the wires disconnected from it. There are also 2 broken springs that need to be replace. I think all the brushes need to be resurfaced since all of them dont feel smooth on the angled end of each brush (unless they are supposed to be that way). Is it feasible to replace and or repair all of this or better off just finding a new motor? I don’t see any way for me to upload photos otherwise i would send them to you. Thanks

What kind and model motor. Send me the motor. I lost my ability to look at them without having it onsite. Email me what you have. rodneyadiehl@aol.com

$120 including salvage parts. add $60 if machining required plus shipping.

Send cover and armature only to

Rodney Diehl
2400 Baywater Road
Tavares Florida
32778

251 269 3182

Hi Rodney,

Sorry but let me know what parts are the Armature and cover (is the cover the outer casing that has the Motor Specs listed on a label). Sorry for my ignorance but I am not familiar with the motor parts, I’m just an amateur with this stuff. thanks

He wants the big inner rotor and the end cap/plate with the brushes. Box it up REALLY well and so the two parts don’t beat each other to bits.

It makes sense if you don’t have to ship the motor housing it saves that much in shipping weight.
This is awesome that he thinks he can save it.

B

The back cover with the brushes and the armature (the heavy rotating part. email me at rodneyadiehl@aol.com