looking into this technology, i think the future of energy and transportation could very well be derrived from the ‘water to hydrogen’ technology. I know it sounds too good to be true, but I know people who are doing this and it is very simple and it works. The government is even developing a hummer to run on this technology(as seen on Fox News)!
What do you guys think?
check out the ‘Water to Hydrogen’ listings on www.earth-list.com
I bought in, got the equipment, but am selling my existing vehicles first as I want a small pickup to experiment on , and use of course. I do have a link at
http://www.fuelbyh2o.com if anyones interested in reading up on it. (p.s. Yes, I do get a commission on any sales, thanks)
I think it takes about 3200 ft3 of hydrogen to equal 1 gallon of gas I cannot see how a few bubbles of hydrogen cycled through your engine can do much.
Also do not forget that if you are making hydrogen using your vehicles electric system that all power to do that starts in the gas tank and that at each change of energy some is lost.
Gas to ICE engine to spin the alternator.
Alternator rotary motion to electricity.
Electricity to hydrogen.
Keep us posted on your testing I would like to see some somewhat controlled testing results.
http://www.water4gasforum.com is where you can find some answers & results.
Using water to fuel vehicles is a horrible concept.
Just what we need, $5/gallon drinking water.
When you buy bottled drinking water you often pay more than $5/gal.
I don’t drink bottled water, the rate I drink water it would cost me $300-$500 per month just for bottled water. If the tap is good enough for them to bottle and re-sell at massive profit, it’s good enough for me to purify my own tap.
If you will do a little reading, you will see that you do not use water instead of gas, but rather, you extract H.H.O. ( called Brown’s Gas), and use this to supplement your gas, often allowing 50-90% increases in gas mileage. Check it out at http://www.fuelbyh2o.com. And you use very little water, less than a quart of distilled water per 800 miles, usually. Also you can use this same system to generate your own healthy, purified drinking water very cheaply.
I have built one and I used a 2" x 4 " sheet of 24 gauge stainless steel cut into four 6 inch pieces. I used two sheets of 24 gauge stainless steel 6 inches x 48 inches rolled like a jelly roll cut two tabs on the outside of the roll and bent the tabs up. Then I bought a roll of gutter gaurd it is made of plastic and it is used to keep leaves out of the gutter. I then inserted the gutter gaurd inbetweed the two pieces of stainless steel as a insulator. I then bought a Whirlpool whole house water filter and rolled the jelly foll small ehough to fir inside the container. I rotosipped two holes big enough in the side of the container for the tabs to fit through. I also cut two pieces of 2 inch cpvc about one inch long and slotted it so as to keep the stainlesssteel from touching the containers bottom. I then inserted the jelly roll into the filter and pulled the tabs thru the side of the filter. This is important as you do not want any electrical connections inside the container as they will corrode and possibly cause a spark and a subsequent explosion. I then used RTV sealant inside and out to seal the rotozipped holes to seal it up. I then drilled holes into the two tabs for attaching the wires to. I have two #12 stranded wires attached to the tabs so I can run it to the battery for testing. I used distilled water and got minimal results, then I added baking soda and voila lots of hydrogen gas. The problem I have right now is the amperage draw through the wires. There are controls available,#1 to reduce the voltage and thus the amperage draw, #2 a 110 volt bridge rectafier, you have to use a inverter to make the 115 volts ac the rectafier turns it to 110 volts dc, the plus with this is reduced amperage can be used and a smaller wire size. You sitll might need to use the pot box to reduce the voltage. #3 A two control pwm one to control the voltage and one to control the frequency of the DC current. Any thoughts which one would be the right choice? There are two more areas that you need to address #1 the oxygen sensor needs to be fooled into thinking the engine is running at the right temperature. This is wone with millavolts as the oxygen sensor is a thermocouple. #2 the MAP/MAF sensor as this will lean out the injectors. If you don’t make adjustments th theese the engine will run richer and make you burn more gas than you are already burning.
new dawn
P.S. I am also working on a magnetic progect.
You’ve lost me. Where are you getting 115v/ 110v from in a 12v system?
The inverter runs on 12 volt DC and inverts the voltage to 115 AC, thus you can get 110 volts DC with a Bridge Rectifier. It boosts the DC up to a higher leval and you can run the HHO at a lower Amperage and reduce the heat it puts out. there is a loss inverting the DC to AC then back to DC at a higher voltage. I am going to try this and see what the results are.
[QUOTE=new dawn;4600]The inverter runs on 12 volt DC and inverts the voltage to 115 AC, thus you can get 110 volts DC with a Bridge Rectifier. It boosts the DC up to a higher leval and you can run the HHO at a lower Amperage and reduce the heat it puts out. there is a loss inverting the DC to AC then back to DC at a higher voltage. I am going to try this and see what the results are.[/QUOTE]
new dawn, instead of useint the inverter and rectifer you could use basicly a tesla coil , were as using a thick wire at the power source then thin it out inbetween there and the plates , as tesla coils do or did , becuase i remember reading or watching something about them and the thinning of the with reduces watts or amps or both while increasing voltage.
Edit: i was thinking and and remebered the automotive ignition coil , which works that very principal , inexpensive , common , simple. just a thought
[QUOTE=mpipes;4527]Using water to fuel vehicles is a horrible concept.
Just what we need, $5/gallon drinking water.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree mpipes water is already in short supply…
Surley we should be thinking about using other forms of generation & keep away from fluid type combustion/compression ideas.
actually, you would be separating the hydrogen from the water for use as fuel, which when "burned’ converts back to Water! And people pay, on the average, $1.00 for a 16.9 oz bottle of water now in the US. That’s approximately $7.57 per gallon.
Why buy it when it is free at the tap or water fountans. Our planet is 2\3ds covered in water it doesn’t matter if it is pond water salt water or fresh water. It falls from the sky as rain, snow, sleet, hail, dew ect… I guess if you are in the desert then you might have to buy it.
Yes, it is a dream come true for the execs at Pepsi and Coke that Americans will pay $7 - $8 / gal for TAP water that when through a “filter” before they bottled it. Mind boggling. And they are bilding another 1.5 million gal / day bottling plant in Michigan to sell water.
Gwen
Living in Ireland The water has been quite polluted here for a few years but its not bad enough to do damage yet. But whats been happening here Recently is companies are setting up saying thats its spring water when they are filling it straight from the tap as happened with a sub company of a large American corporation (not pepsi). However a 1/2 litre of water here costs 1.50 multiply that by 10 and its working out almost 3 times more expensive than a gallon of petrol that has to be drilled for shipped and refined.yet some companies think they should be allowed put water in an eco unfriendly plastic bottle and charge 3 times as much as petrol.
In my opinion the world is slowly going mad and the people in it are slowly being brainwashed by the powers that be.
Drink TAP WATER it cant be that bad.
[QUOTE=earth-list.com;4517]looking into this technology, i think the future of energy and transportation could very well be derrived from the ‘water to hydrogen’ technology. I know it sounds too good to be true, but I know people who are doing this and it is very simple and it works. The government is even developing a hummer to run on this technology(as seen on Fox News)!
What do you guys think?
check out the ‘Water to Hydrogen’ listings on www.earth-list.com[/QUOTE]
hope this would be real…
while the electrolysis of water under the right conditions is a mild endothermic reaction ( some of the energy chemically stored in the hydrogen came from the heat in the environment ) … in order to get a net output equal or better than what you put in is extremely difficult.
The smallest amount of energy needed to electrolyze one mole of water is 65.3 Wh.
When the hydrogen burns with oxygen it releases 79.3 Wh.
This is a 14 Wh improvement … these 14 Wh are not free … it is energy that was exothermically absorbed from the environment during the electrolysis.
Water is not the fuel… this is just a means of extracting some of the thermal energy from the environment.
the problem is that no combination of equipment is efficient enough for this to be a sustaining reaction… The most efficient electrolyzer I know of is specialized extremely expensive equipment and still doesn’t even get 90% of the energy that goes into the electrolyzer ending up in the conversion. The home made stuff is rarely even 50% efficient.
the other question is how efficient can you be when you convert it back to water? how much of the released energy can you utilize… again it is not 100%… spark ignition engines are usually less than 30% efficient … even the best combustion engines don’t get anywhere near efficient enough.
How about the generator mechanical energy back to electrical? we will have a hard time getting better than ~95% efficiency.
So how efficient would you have to be?
At best you have about a ~21.4% endothermic gain.
So if you start will 100 Wh…
using a magical 90% efficient electrolysis… you get 90Wh
90Wh + our 21.4% endothermic gain puts us up at 109.26 Wh
a normal ~30% efficient combustion engine would only give us ~32.8 Wh
So we need a magical combustion engine too:
90% efficient combustion engine will give out ~98.3 Wh
now we need to convert that mechanical energy to electrical energy.
with a high efficiency 95% efficient generator we end up with ~93.4 Wh.
So you start with 100Wh of electrical energy and end up with 93.4 … even with magical components that are far far more efficient than you will ever get in the real world.
I have no doubt you could run a engine like this… but it is a battery powered combustion engine… as the battery is supplying all the energy, and you are not generating enough electrical energy to recharge the battery as fast as you are draining it.
Now the other / separate thing is by adding small amount of hydrogen to gasoline combustion you can make it more efficient… because of the higher flame speed of Hydrogen… but Hydrogen also has less energy per unit volume than gasoline does… so while your efficiency would go up… your power would go down.
this is also still a gasoline powered engine … the water is just being used as a fuel additive.
Just my 2 bits.