I am working on a 2005 E4 with the Blue 7.5 Hp Ride for Fun motor. The Car does not accelerate as expected. Batteries are ok. Car tops out eventually at 21 Mph (GPS speed)
The temperature light is lit on the dashboard, It is under the Brake warning light. It is yellow with a circle around a vertical line with small horizontal lines from the vertical line (as in graduations on a thermometer)
No codes! The temperature light is always on, as soon as key on.
The temperature probe wires are tied together near the motor. I verified that +72V is going into the controller at pin 21. (signaling Not over temp) Disconnecting the wire leaving pin 21 floating does not change the performance of the car, not does the temp light go off.
The controller is a T4 (last digits in model number) Oddly is says “Re manufactured Motor controller” Another label says “Older vehicles without a brake switch must connect pin 13 of the main 23 pin plug to battery negative” And pin 13 is connected to 72v Minus.
Brakes were just replaced. All 4 wheels spin freely.
So problem is lack of power, and what I am chasing is the temp light.
Anybody work for GE?
just out of curiosity, is there a temp sensor on the motor and those wires are tied together instead of the temp sensor wires going to the controller being wired together?
Also, is the inner metal parts of the wires twisted together(electrical connection) or are just the rubber outer parts of the wires twisted together( physical connection)?
Are you sure you have P21? My drawing shows it as a Bk/Y wire.
Describe what you are doing to measure for +72 on P21?
Next step is pulling that 23p connector apart, releasing the retainer, pulling that Pin21 out of the connector and very gently pushing in on the tiny spring/wiper wires. (thinking they are not making good contact with the pin when plugged in).
I tried swapping controllers with another car. The new controller works great. The car accelerates and has the expected top speed.
The warning light is not on with the alternate controller.
The wiring for the temp switch is connected and +72 volts is getting to pin 21. Measuring between the temp input and 72V neg at the controller. The connector is clean, dry, all the pins on the controller are intact, all the contacts in the socket are seated.
The problem controller turns on the temp light, no code, no wrench, and lacks power.
That is another good way to test. Not many have other cars of extra parts to swap around.
If you were wildly curious you might take your problem controller and gently pop the lid off and check for visual evidence of electronic mayhem.
Look real close at P21 and it’s surrounding traces. It may be a cold solder joint or bad trace in that area. You may find nothing. In which case, just close it up and send it off to FSIP.
-or-
You may find evidence that this board has had a degree of water intrusion and the whole board is an alien terrain of powder and voltage induced science experiment.
and lacks power.
And I think you realize that since the Temp Light is triggered, the controller intentionally pulls back on power output. This is normal.
Looking inside the controller shows water damage and blown components. It appears the water got in around the connector. I will send the controller out for repair.
This is the kind of stuff that can keep a guy awake at night.
Thanks for taking the time and actually taking it apart. I like it when an odd problem ends up with an “A-ha! There it is!” moment.
Are there any settings in the T4 controller configuration for the motor temperature threshold?
The temp sensor in the old GE motors were strictly a “Open at X(?) temp”. The controller sees this as a conditional state and not capable of viewing this as a variable signal. If conditon exists it only cuts back power. Unfortunately, the amount of cutback is hard coded and not adjustable either.
In the spirit of the great D. Harry You should as ask yourself “if you fee lucky, Punk?”
Only continue if this is within the scope of your talent pool. I THINK FSIP will not touch these things if they have been mucked about by weekend techs. (I’m not sure where I heard that, but I might be wrong).
I suppose if you wanted to carefully clean the corrosion with a toothbrush you could look for a break in the trace coming from Pin 21. Also look at the bottom of P2 on the board.
Do a bit of continuity checks and see if something can be jumped. In theory- all you need to do is put B+ on this pin and hopefully the Temp error will clear.
It’s been awhile since I’ve posted on here, so relearning how to do it from my phone.
My 2013 E4 has started having this same issue.
My controller was actually rebuilt by FSIP a few years ago and had an issue with the interlock still, but that’s a whole other thread…
I’ve done the troubleshooting as suggested here, I did pull the top off the controller and probed around and found no water damage that looks like the other guys damage.
I did find some interesting residue but not sure what it is.
I’m curious about trying to bypass this as suggested… apply B+ to P21… Would I cut the main wiring harness P21 wire and apply B+ to the wire coming from the controller, or to the car wiring harness side to bypass the controller?
Actually, the first thing you should be looking at is your Temp sensor wiring down at your motor.
As noted by the OP, this was done and the post continued to the more intense internal inspection.
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Did you try the harness inspection first? (Is sounds like you may have jumped to the end looking for your solution)
This is where I would look for B+, then possibly running a jumper to the wire in the plug if B+ not found.
Sorry, it’s been a minute since I’ve been able to return this car and the issues at hand…..
I did the harness inspection and found nothing suspicious. My harness has pin 21 with a blk/Y wire that goes from controller to temp sensor.
I did check the temp sensor at the motor and nothing looks suspicious.
When I check for B+ on pin 21 to B- on controller I get 30mv……I did however probe pin A&B together where the harness plugs into the temp sensor and I get B+ there.
I then probed pin 21 to B+ on the controller and I get B+ reading as if pin 21 is connected to B-…..
I’ve gone through the Drive and Power System troubleshooting and it ended up with replace the PSDM….?
It is actually much simpler than what you have been doing.
The temp sensor down at your motor is the two wire connector. Jump the two wires in that connector.
Verify that your temp light goes out and your car returns to full speed.
Y/N?
I jumped the connector to the temp sensor with an inline fused wire (just for insurance/safety)and the temp light does indeed go off!
I am still getting the error code 81, and occasionally error code 82……
The charger still seems to be giving me a 2 flashing red light error code…..
I’ve recently charged all batteries individually with a smart charger to get them all back up equalized.
Checked voltages on all batteries and they are all where they should be so I’m not sure why the charger is giving me that code.
This is the charger that FSIP rebuilt a year or two ago and never could seem to send it back to me fully fixed… The interlock circuit never has worked and I had to run a jumper wire too make the car go..
I think I’m at the point of just buying a new charger versus sending this in to have repaired again……. Thoughts?
Code 81/82 is speed sensor related. That is the other plug down at the end of the motor.
What has recently changed with that? Were you getting this error last time we chatted? This could be a bad contact at the Main 23p plug on top of the controller. Pull that and give it a spritz of contact cleaner and reinstall.
Either that or the sensor might need to be changed.
Charger- Verify wiring is correct and that the Main Battery Disconnect switch is ON when you plug it in to charge.
Okay, so I did as suggested and cleaned the 23 pin connection from the controller and the connection at the speed sensor with electrical contactor cleaner.
I also removed the cover on the speed sensor to see if everything looked as it should and all was well.
I’m unsure of the results and if they’re related to the cleaning of the contacts……… the speed sensor started working intermittently AND the regenerative braking started working for the first time since I’ve had this car…(had FSIP rebuild the controller when I first bought the car because it was not working).
I had thought that I needed to change a setting in the controller for the regenerative braking to start working and hadn’t got around to it yet with working through all the other issues first.
Do you think the speed sensor is bad and that is causing the intermittent working/not working…?
Does the sudden start working of the regenerative brakes have anything to do with the speed sensor….. or cleaning of the 23 pin connector… or is this a coincidence ?…
