I have a brake problem with the right front wheel. I suspect the brake is dragging and it grinds when brake is applied. I can’t get the wheel off the shaft, I’ve removed the large nut but the hub won’t budge. Is there any reason I can’t use a wheel puller to get the hub off? I don’t want to damage anything and have never taken the hub off of a GEM. I assume it’s just like a conventional auto wheel.
Thanks for your time.
Paul
Can you send photos?
Yes I guess I can but a photo of what? If you remove the wheel, you have the hub, that’s what I have to remove to get to the brake shoe.
Not clear what you’re trying to remove. The “wheel” with the tire or the brake “drum”? Maybe a better explanation would help get a better answer.
If it’s the brake assembly, there should be 4 x 13mm bolts accessible from behind the unit. Remove those and you should be able to remove the brake assembly.
Arandall,
I guess I was using the wrong terminology. I want to remove the drum from the axle so I can get at the brake shoes. I’ve removed the large nut and washer in the cent of the drum but it won’t budge. I suspect I have a broken return spring on the shoe and its rubbing against the drum when I drive it.
Sorry for the wrong terms I was using:confused:
Thanks for your time.
Can you manually rotate the wheel? If so the drum isn’t THAT frozen up or you probably couldn’t turn it.
I’ve NOT tried it on a GEM but I think a wheel puller would work fine to pull the drum. I’ve done it a number of times with regular vehicles when a drum was frozen in place (typically by the vehicle sitting too long and the brake drum rusting up). If the brake is hanging up for any reason, that will make it hard to remove without turning to brute “force”. A wheel puller at least is “controlled” force vs a big hammer!
You MIGHT want to try this on the left wheel to verify that your technique works. Presumably it’s not hung up on that side and should come off pretty easily. If that removal works smoothly on the left side, it should work the same way on the right side.
JAT but you MIGHT want to consider replacing the front drum brakes with disc brakes depending on your GEM;s speed, age and your budget. NEV Accessories (not affiliated w/ them) sells a replacement “kit” for $580 + shipping.
Good luck!
Al
I got the shop manual and it shows a blow up of the whole brake drum. There are two allen screws that hold the drum to the wheel. I removed them and it still won’t budge. Next I’m removing the brake line and wheel from the axle and work on it on the bench.
I’ll keep you posted.
Well I had to resort to the “Large hammer” method of removing the brake drum. When it came off, the brake linings just fell off the shoe. Now I need to determine the root cause of the failure to prevent it from happening again.
I need to order shoes, springs and cylinder. Can anyone recommend a good parts supplier?
Thanks for your time.
Paul
Well I uploaded two photos, I guess I did something wrong, I used the insert option and uploaded two .jpeg files. Is there another way of uploading photos?
NEVAccessories.com in Chandler, AZ carries all sorts of brake parts for GEM.
You MIGHT want to ask them about a disk brake upgrade since you’ve already done 50% of the work required to install them.
By the way I’m installing my disk brake upgrade tomorrow and I’ll have a couple of complete GEM brakes I’m happy to give you if you want to pay shipping.
Al
That’s where I went and bought everything I need. Thanks for the offer of the shoes but I got two pair and I’ll do both front brakes. This is one of those “you might as well” jobs:D
Paul
Here’s my second try at uploading a photo, hope it works:confused:
Well I finally got all the parts and took off the old and put on the new. Low and behold I have a fluid lead at the connection of the brake line to the cylinder. Here’s the problem, at the end of the line there is a ring that a bolt goes thru to connect to the cylinder. There is a small hole in the ring, about the diameter of a paper clip stock, and a hole in the bolt to provide fluid to the cylinder. Well, these two holes have to line up, how in the he… do you align these two holes???:scared: Has anyone ever replaced the cylinder? Is there a GEM car mechanic on board? I’m not a mechanic but this seems bizarre to me. How would a mechanic align them?
HELP:eek:
Thanks for your time.
Paul
Paul,
While I’ve never replaced a cylinder on a GEM, I’ve done many on cars and that description doesn’t seem right to me. The bolt in the hole is normal. Of all the brake lines I’ve ever seen, there isn’t a “hole” as such but rather a “ring” Think of a wedding ring with the inside “groved out” all the way around attached to a hose. The brake fluid exits the hose into this ring and then enters the cylinder through the bolt which attaches the hose&ring to the cylinder. The “ring” prevents any alignment issues since it’s “open” all the way around. Are you SURE it’s a hole and not “goop” clogging up the ring? By the way if it IS goop, I’d replace the brake lines since it’s sure to be contaminated throughout.
Incidentally if you still can’t figure it out, let me know. I have my old brake drums and hoses sitting around (I replaced them recently w/ discs) and I’ll take them apart and look at them this weekend.
Al
Al,
No it’s not goop, it’s a hole, I’ll check to see if there’s a groove in the ring, if there is, it not a very deep one. I’ll check on it.
Paul
OK. I’m curious as well so I’ll pull the brake hose off my old drums this weekend as well to see what it all looks like. Since I replaced brake lines & cylinders w/ new discs brakes and lines, I never bothered looking.
There is no groove in the ring just the hole. I did a little experiment and lined up the hole in the ring with the hole in the bolt, the wife pumped the pedal and the fluid came out of the end of the bolt as it should. I turned the bolt a half turn so the holes weren’t aligned and the fluid did not come out the end of the bolt but sprayed out between the copper washers. So, the holes must be aligned. I’m going to score the bolt where the hole is and put it back together, I only hope it’s tight against the cylinder.
I’ll keep you posted.
Paul
Something really isn’t right about that setup since as you would expect precise alignment would be nearly impossible. If you tighten the bolt sufficiently to snug down the assembly, the holes could easily be misaligned and no brake fluid would flow (ergo no brakes) and if not sufficiently snug, it will leak around the washers. IMO either the ring at the end of the hose should be internally grooved or the bolt fastening the ring to the cylinder should be channeled (cut back slightly in diameter where the brake line ring is situated on the bolt). Either way would allow the assembly to be tightened w/o concerns about misalignment and the brake fluid would find it’s way to the cylinder.
To rely on “precise” alignment between two small holes for a brake line is very poor engineering and certainly unnecessary. I wonder if someone at some time didn’t cobble together these parts (using either a non-GEM brake line or non-GEM bolt) just to make it work.
Now I’m really curious to see how my old drum brake lines are configured. I’m going to look when I get home. I just can’t believe it would be engineered from GEM the way you’ve describe it (or at least the way I envision it based on your description).
Al
Yea I agree, very poor engineering on GEM’s part. All of the hoses, bolt, the old cylinder and shoes look original to me. I bought the eL used but it was in a garage for 6 years and not used. I gotta believe everything is original equipment. The trick will be to rotate the ring to align with the bolt hole when it’s almost tight. As I said, I’m going to score the bolt head and align it that way.
Paul
Al,
This is an impossible task, I’ve been working on trying to align the holes for an hour. I’f you still have your old brake lines, and they have a groove in them :D, I’ll buy them from you, I only need the front right but I’ll take them all, name your price.
Paul
Paul,
I just got home (even left work early because I was curious) and looked at my old brake assembly. You’re correct in that there isn’t any grove in the ring BUT the OD of the bolt w/ the hole is less than the ID of the ring by maybe 1/16" to 1/8" (combined both sides). I don’t have a set of internal/external micrometers handy so can’t give you anything more exact. You can tell for yourself simply by feel since the bolt is “wobbly” in the hole; the threaded portion is “tight” and the unthreaded portion is narrower than the threads. If you look at a standard bolt, the threaded portion is always smaller than the unthreaded portion. Not so on this bolt. The unthreaded portion is intentionally made smaller to provide clearance.
This slight difference in ID/OD will leave sufficient gap between the ring and the bolt when the bolt is seated and secured to allow brake fluid to get into the hole and thus the cylinder regardless of how the holes are aligned. Whew! Restores my faith in the original engineering.
There should be two copper compression gaskets; one on top of the ring and another at the bottom. You’ll need to snug down the bolt sufficiently tight to compress these copper gaskets top and bottom to prevent brake fluid from leaking out under pressure but you won’t need to worry about hole alignment after all.
Al