@Mrbig - Onboard air is the way to go. Do you have individual control of each wheel? Or front/back in pairs?
If each wheel, then there will be no side/side pressure crossover. The valve block isolates each corner of the car.
I have both fronts on the same pump. But I have no leaning and no loss of pressure when I turn. But I’m running a lot of psi in my shocks. That is the important part. If there is not enough pressure to handle the extra force of the turn, and the shocks are too soft, then there would be an issue. I know my gauge is not accurate but I put over 100psi to the 2 front shocks, when there are 2 front passengers. The front is firm and stable.
Thanks all for the suggestions and info. I’m going to try isolating the shocks by either the valve suggestion or another method and see where I end up. I am running around 100lbs in the fronts and a bit less in the rear. Ride height dictates where my pressure ends up as I want to keep it as close to stock as possible. Lean and handling are both much worse the more pressure I put in the system. At stock ride height, my downward suspension travel is reduced significantly from stock as the air shocks compressed length is longer than stock but I knew that going in.
Are you running all 4 shocks on the same valve?
Im running fronts separately. I just find it strange that you are getting so much leaning while Im not.
I used the air lines and tee fittings that came with the Gabriel’s so the fronts are tied together at the tee valve and same with rear shocks. It makes sense to me that I’m getting the lean in turns when the outboard shocks are compressed and air is transferred to the inboard side. What doesn’t make as much sense to me is why they don’t equalize after the turn. I’m sure there is some amount of friction in the shock travel that maybe the air pressure alone can’t overcome. If the car is sitting in my garage I can apply pressure at the roof and sway the car all the way over and bottom out the shocks on the opposite side. It will stay in that position until I apply pressure in the opposite direction. I crimped the air lines on both front and rear and tried it again with the same result. I’m thinking a sway bar may be needed to get these to work well at stock ride height. Can’t think of anything else to try without getting too exotic.
Should mention I started down this path in hopes of replacing 21-year-old coilovers and worn out bushings without the expense of NEV coilovers. I bit the bullet and ordered a pair of NEV to try out.
You are right. This doesn’t make sense. It sounds like you didn’t get the lines totally pinched off.
How much air pressure are you running in these air shocks?
I’ll look to see if the onboard pump system isolates the 2 shocks. But in your case, it wouldn’t matter if you crimped the lines, and the Think is still sitting lopsided.
How did you install the shocks? Did you unbolt the lower control arm to get the shocks installed?
If so, did you tighten the 2 bolts too much, and not follow torque specs, causing the control arms not to move freely?
Also, looking at your picks, my shocks are a lot more open than what yours show. Is it possible that your shocks are too tall?
Thinking about this more it makes perfect sense. The air pressure is still the same in both shocks, it just shifted air volume over to the other side. There is no other force telling it to level out except for a little bit of rear spring, but that is also fighting itself. It really looks like your shocks are too long.
I think the only reason Mr Big setup seems to work is that he is running over 100 psi in his shocks. I bet his shocks are at the top of their stroke. When he dives into a corner the outside compresses even more and this will push back when running straight again.
@Mrbig - If you put a jack under your car, how high does the frame lift before the wheels come off the ground?
First thing is how did you tighten your suspension? Before tightening the upper and lower control arm bushings everything should be assembled and the weight of the car on it with the proper air pressure in the shocks. This is the neutral position. This is when you tighten it all up. Ball joints should also be tightened with the wheels straight ahead, but this is not your problem. If it still does it after this on both sides, I would try to up your air pressure in the shocks or your suspension is binding.
So, then the other question is why do my shocks equalize, with no issues after a turn or different weight of passengers? I thought not enough air pressure, from the beginning.
When having air shocks, you have to pump the level up while you are sitting in the Think. Otherwise, it will not be high enough when the passengers get in.
@AssyRequired my frame lifts the same way it did, when I had the stock shocks installed. But when my shocks are pumped up to where they need to be, I have a lot more reveal at the bottom of the shocks, than what @C4202K2’s pics show. I just looked and the outer housing is 5 to 6" from the bottom.
@C4202K2 I just looked on the chart sheet, and the 49173 and 49614 are very close in specs. I also pumped mine up to my normal height, with me in it. My “inaccurate” on board Air Lift gauge shows a little over 200psi.
I suggest sitting in the think and pump the shocks up to where the lower control arm is pretty level. Then go for a drive.
All suspension bushings were tightened with the stock shocks installed when weighted and in the neutral position. New ball joints on front as of 6 months ago. No binding or play at all noted when the shocks were off. Just rubber bushing “spring” back to neutral position as expected.
These shocks are definitely too long for the Think in the sense that we will never be able to top them out and their compressed length is also longer than the stock units. They’re at the bottom 1/8 of their stroke at stock height on the Think. The Gabriel’s are 19.23" extended and 12.01" compressed. My guess is my front stock shocks are 14.15" extended and ~11.5" compressed.
I’m also running a Lithium battery from @Inwo so maybe having dropped all the lead weight is a factor in my lean issue as well.
@Mrbig - I think you are binding up your suspension.
Or- You are actually running another part number? (this 49173 does not even seem to have the correct ends on it for your car?)
49173
- Collapsed Length (in) -12.01
- Extended Length (in) - 19.24
- Up to 1,100 pounds of leveling capacity per pair
- Air pressure of 25 min – 200 max psi
19 1/4 extended? Are you sure you guys are running the correct length?
Something is not right here - Sure, there is a bit of geometry in suspension design and where you are placing the spring package, But it looks like they are mounted fairly close to straight up and outboard to the wheel. According to the specs I find the curb weight of the car is around 1400 pounds.
According to what the shock is rated, it looks like it can just about lift the car with just a set of two at max pressure. (which you say are probably close to using your inaccurate gauge).
Yep, these air shocks I don’t think should be considered a “plug and play” direct replacement for the stock coilovers…at least not from my perspective. Maybe for someone who is looking for a lifted solution without much hassle or someone who doesn’t mind doing a bit of extra install with a swaybar these would work well. I still think adding a swaybar would straighten out a lot of the lean I’m getting BUT I was hoping to not have to bolt one up to my Think. Probably will reverse course and start looking back at coilover options. Kinda torn since the ride quality is really good with these.
I did try to play with different air pressure but always ended up at the same lean issue. More pressure always meant a stiffer ride and “lifted” stance. Also I never got anywhere near 200psi. Maybe 150 at the extreme high end on fronts.
AS I STATED, my shocks are 49614. They are very close to the front shocks that came off my Think. I’m not binding anything. They’ve been on for a very long time now with no issues, except the occasional adding air. The ride is tight but smooth with no lean or unevenness, way nicer than the coil overs. The corner handling is the best thing about them.
The GVRW weight is 2300 pounds on 4 wheels. Each wheel weight is obviously going to be less.
Over a year ago, I contacted Gabriel support with my Think weight and shock specs. They told me model 49614 would work and assured me they would handle the weight and then some. When pumped up to the correct height, my shocks are pumped up more than halfway, allowing for bounce and compression. I’ve never bottomed out and never had sway or leaning problems. And they were plug and play, with the exception of having to use 2 bushings on the top, above the mount, since the stem was so long. So, I don’t know what the issue @Ryflyk23 is having, unless they were mounted different, or he received the wrong shock, because I have none of the issues mentioned.
@Mrbig I’m not sure what the difference is but glad to hear yours are working well. I looked up specs on your model vs mine and they seem very similar lengthwise. Gotta be a difference somewhere. Interested to know from any others who installed the 49173 what their experience has been.
AS I STATED, my shocks are 49614.
I stand corrected:
49614
Collapsed Length (IN) - 11.94
Extended Length (IN) - 19.04
I’m glad it’s working out for you.
@AssyRequired you posted:
49614
Collapsed Length (IN) - 11.94"
Extended Length (IN) - 19.04"
Which is correct.
The specs also show a 7.10" stroke.
I just measured my pair of original Ford Think Neighbor shocks that came off my 4-seater.
And I just noticed i posted this way back in this thread.
Extended Shock Length is close to 18"
Compressed Shock Length is approximately 13"
Shock stroke is around 5 to 6"
The 49614 has more shock travel than the stock shock. But I find there is very little compression, but enough to be more comfortable than my coil overs.
This attached pic shows how it looks pumped up when driving it. I usually start out higher by about 2 inches to accommodate for the added passenger weight.
I hope this helps.
Just to chime in, now that I’ve had a chance to test the 49173’s on my Think. I am having the same lean issue with or without the compressor, or if I fill them directly as @Ryflyk23. I am running a 2 seater with Lead Acid batteries, Does the 2 seater use a different size coil over than the 4 seater or should I use the 18 extended 13 compressed as a the guide (@David_Illingworth , @Inwo , @AssyRequired )?
I’m curious what everyone’s opinion on the following given they are 11" compressed and 17.13" extended:
Amazon.com: Gabriel 34058 Front Load Carrier : Automotive
or the ones that have been tossed around in the forum previously,
Amazon.com: Coil Over Shocks, Fit Ball Joint Front VW, PAIR, Compatible with Dune Buggy : Automotive
Ford used at least three different coil overs, depending on the model. That doesn’t explain the lean though. I would neutralize the suspension. Meaning loosen the control arms, bounce the car up and down and then torque them back down with the vehicle on the ground.
Sorry for the late response. I do not have any lean issue whatsoever. And my 4 seater rides smoother than my 2 seater with coil-overs. So, I would take @David_Illingworth 's advice and “neutralize the suspension. Meaning loosen the control arms, bounce the car up and down and then torque them back down with the vehicle on the ground.”