Highway capable EEstor CityZENN

Hi everyone,

I’ve been subscribed to the ZENN newsletter since before the EEstor partnership and recently they published a news release concerning a highway capable ZENN. Is it just me, or does ZENN owe its success solely to its exclusive use of the EEstors? I don’t mean to be rude, but I’ve always seen ZENN as more of a conversion shop than a serious car company (the gliders are pre-made microcars).
I love successful Canadian companies, except in the mining and fossil fuel sector, but I find that ZENN is missing the dynamic engineering edge companies such as Tesla have in designing something truly unique and simply awe inspiring.
What background in electric cars and engineering does Ian Clifford have? I remember from an old interview that he said he was driving his SUV in traffic one day and wanted to build something that wouldn’t pollute, that’s it. Most clips of the ZENN seem to put him, alone, in the spotlight, while credit seems to be given to the whole team of designers with Tesla.

If the highway capable ZENN becomes reality, as it most likely shall, then it’ll put an end to Hydrogen fuel cells (Yey!!! :D) but is the EEstor technology in deserving hands?

What do you think?

personally i wouldnt’ worry about it too much… heck look at bill gates… he didn’t do any of the programing for the origional DOS but he still sold it and made tons of money…

Personally as long as the technology is out there i could care less who has it as long as we are all able to use it.

I don’t mean to be rude, but Ian Clifford doesn’t seem to know much about his own product at times, or he repeats the same thing over without much confidence just like Canada’s not so green Environment Minister. Normally, EV fanatics don’t start off driving SUVs as I heard in an old interview.

A little thing known as the Peter Principle.

I did some research and it turns out Ian Clifford used to be a photographer and internet marketing company co-founder

WOW! I know someone who’s getting deleted! Pure Moderator member-removing gold!

[QUOTE=DeLorean_4;2230]Is it just me, or does ZENN owe its success solely to its exclusive use of the EEstors? I don’t mean to be rude, but I’ve always seen ZENN as more of a conversion shop than a serious car company (the gliders are pre-made microcars).

I love successful Canadian companies, except in the mining and fossil fuel sector, but I find that ZENN is missing the dynamic engineering edge companies such as Tesla have in designing something truly unique and simply awe inspiring.
What background in electric cars and engineering does Ian Clifford have? I remember from an old interview that he said he was driving his SUV in traffic one day and wanted to build something that wouldn’t pollute, that’s it. Most clips of the ZENN seem to put him, alone, in the spotlight, while credit seems to be given to the whole team of designers with Tesla.

If the highway capable ZENN becomes reality, as it most likely shall, then it’ll put an end to Hydrogen fuel cells (Yey!!! :D) but is the EEstor technology in deserving hands?

[/QUOTE]

I am an engineer, and an older and wiser engineer told me once that the point of engineering was to do “as little original work as possible”. This hurt my feelings at the time, since I wanted to design all-new, all-exiting things. What’s the fun of assembling parts and re-using old components? That’s just Legos, right?

Now I’m a little older than when I heard that, and I hope I’m getting a little wiser. And I’ve had quite a bit of experience of putting the Legos together, and I think I understand his point a little better now. It can be quite a challenge to create something in a “constrained” setting. Just like how the sonnet form forces a poet to express himself in a particular rhythm and rhyme scheme, using as much existing technology as possible while creating something new can be a rewarding exercise.

It’s really cool that the Tesla guys get individual and team recognition. No one likes the boss to get all the credit – I agree with you there. The Tesla is also a really cool looking car, with multiple neat new technologies. Even if they only build a handful of cars, they’ll still make a big impact on the world of technology.

But the Tesla roadster is unaffordable for me, and even if it were I couldn’t go out and buy one today. On the other hand, the ZENN microcar is both affordable to most employed people and available now. There’s a dealer near me that has ZENNs on the lot, and probably within driving home range without recharging (provided I have a tailwind :wink: ). There is no shame in building a product people can afford. Plus, it provides them some revenue to pursue new technologies without burning through VC money.

As far as ZENN being the stewards of EEStor, we’ll see. ZENN has proven it’s able to build and ship an electric car – no small feat in a world of automotive startup failures. Coming up with a charging infrastructure for fast-charging the EEStor will be quite a trick. The extra range is nice, but it would be a real coup to be able to refuel in about the same time frame as a gas car.

That sounds like a point-by-point rebuttal – please don’t interpret it that way. Just some of my thoughts. Interesting topic.

I’m not the kind of person to shout angrily on a forum (ie use capslock and lots of exclamation marks while being stubborn) and I must say your point has certainly be taken.

I just find it a shame that “more deserving” electric car companies don’t get the opportunity to use these batteries and receive an equal shot at the Automotive X-Prize. I guess it’s just the way the auto industry works unlike small-town Lindberg with his Ryan NYP monoplane and the Orteig prize.

I love music, but Engineering is my goal in life. I’m being torn between both at the moment and as of now I’ve had to give up studying at the Conservatory of Music in Montréal :frowning:

Henry Ford didn’t invent the automobile either, he just figured out how to mass produce them while developing an American middle class. And I’m sure plenty of people bemoaned the fact that you could only get the Model T in Black.

I never thought of putting it that way.

In that case, if everything went to the most deserving, then Sweden would be the dominant world power and everyone would be driving electric Volvos and 2008 Tucker Torpedos (what could have been…).

ZENN didn’t buy out the whole quick-charge market. EEStor isn’t the only super-ultracapacitor game in town. Their approach of increasing dielectric strength and durability is one way to increase the potential energy stored in a cap, but several other organizations are working on increasing energy storage density by increasing capacity, i.e. increasing the effective size of the plates.

There’s a nice article about ultra-capacitor developments in the November 07 issue of IEEE Spectrum.

I heard the Zenn hwy car will have a range of 80 miles and cost about 30,000 dollars. It will be a korean car a four door. Is this right?

I find it interesting that someone finally puts down hard figures, but I question their validity nevertheless. I’m a subscriber to the official Zenn newsletter and I look at every single Youtube video the company officially releases. On the other hand, I have yet to finish watching the stockholders meeting from late May or early June. I recommend you check out www.youtube.com/zenntv, after a little browsing around you get past the cliché news reports and find some pretty good insider info.

All I recall hearing that supports what you just stated is Ian Clifford saying that he’s going to be releasing an EV with gasoline car-like performance at a very similar cost.

I just find it strange that the electric car company I least like is the one in my own province and country. It’s probably because of the ridiculous EEstor monopoly they have which is symbolic of capitalist Darwinism (I’m not a communist, I just hate having good companies turn greedy).

I have read that the cityZenn will cost between $25,000 and $30,000. Here is a great article comparing the cost of the cityZenn with the cost of operating a combustion engine vehicle. http://www.zenncarblog.com/zenn-car/how-much-will-the-cityzenn-zenn-car-cost-me-a-cost-comparison

Isn’t this great! Its been a year since I have heard anything from EEstor. I wonder if any thing is working there?

Zenn announces the arrival of the battery of the century every year as being in two years time. The more time it takes for their secretive Eestor friends to show something tangible to the public, the higher the odds Lithium-Ion technology will catch up. Tesla is already down to a 45 minute long fast-charge and 300 mile range on their Model S, planned for release in 2011.

When I attended the Québec media launch, both Ian Clifford and Gilles Allard (vice president of production) were very broad about the future of Eestor.

I wonder if Zenn will suffer the same fate as Vanguard-Sebring…