Installed new Ride4Fun charger in my 2002 GEM last spring and had a trouble free season - until Friday. Gave the car a wash, but unfortunately (and foolishly) rinsed out the floors, and the next day she is dead. No lights on dash, no wipers or lights or horn or indicator on charger. Charger lights on and apparently working when plugged in.
Only power indication is the buzzer sounds when the parking brake is released.
Any suggestions as to possible problem/solution or where to start troubleshooting will be greatly appreciated.
Do you know if this car has the DC Converter/Wiring update?
First check/observe the power up cold boot signs.
From total power down state - (main disconnect switch OFF for 30~60 sec), Key OFF, Hand brake applied, Charger unplugged (not charging)
→ Observe Dash Display as you flip the Main Disconnect Sw to ON.
Display should light up, show a couple of numbers (which are not important) then go out again in 5~10 sec.
Good- This tells me power is going up to controller, it is pre-charging, Booting the logic board, display is working properly, and going into stand-by.
What is status of dash panels? You might need to remove upper and lower sections. At least remove upper for now.
Look over on the right side just below the windshield for the Key Relay and the Acc Timer/relay. If your car has the update, you will have these as well as a black finned DC Converter (down lower).
If you ever need to hotwire this thing (bypass the entire key/charger/interlock loop)
Find the key relay (I’m not seeing it in your pics). Note that it will have 4 wires going to it.
Black wire is Gnd
Green is +12v from key
White is B+
Gray is Signal to Controller.
→ Pull the gray and white wires off the relay and hook them together. A favo trick is to use a ATO fuse to connet them. Your display should light up and most likely -04 is showing(handbrake set). Release brake and the car should drive.
If Yes - you need to find out why your key relay is not closing. That same green wire (+12v from key) is also going over to your Acc Relay/Timer.
Since you do not have any active 12v accessories either, then you might first check for 12v on the Org wire on your Acc Relay/Timer. This is +12 constant from the DC Converter.
Turns out I replaced the key relay with your help last year, using the bosch cube substitute. Realized that when I found the key relay. There is 13.3v on the orange wire at the timer, but nothing at the green wire going to the key relay. Bypassing the key relay, car comes on, but no accessories.
The Controller waking up when the Key Relay is bypassed is a good sign.
Not finding 12v on the green wire is a partial clue. This relay is just for the controller. The other relay is for the accessories.
Finding 13.3v on the orange wire at the timer tells me that the converter is active(which is good). (It was the easiest place to direct you to check this)
This timer is also activated by the same green wire that goes up to the Key Relay. If you want to check bothe of these relays, Jump the orange wire with the green on the timer (leaving both wires on the timer) and this will wake up both relays as if you turned the key. Car will drive and accessories will be active.
This means we need to look at the Keyed Loop next. Follow this green wire over to see where it goes. It most likely makes a stop at the charger (which is the interlock that keeps your car from driving away when it is plugged in.
After the charger, it goes up to the key. Make sure that is functional.
Check for 12v at each stop. (when keyed).
Otherwise it could be that the key loop is not getting it’s 12v from the source. Look for it over on the 1x16 (Pin 6 or F) connector over in the same area as the timers and converter. Sometimes you just need to pull the connector and put it back together to clean the contacts.
I did jump the orange and green wires on the timer and everything came on as you said.
The green wire has 2 branches, one goes to the key relay, and the other to the charger (as a white wire) and exits as a black wire that connects to a wire going up (apparently) to the key. There is power at that connection, and the console lights up with the jumper in place.
I didn’t get to look at the 16 pin connector, and now it’s dark - car is outside.
Thanks again so much, you are the best. By the way I apparently accidentally created 2 versions of this thread, and DougL jumped in on the other post - I told him that we are here.
There is power at that connection, and the console lights up with the jumper in place.
This sounds like you have a R4F charger. You say you have 12v on the black wire (from key going into charger), and not coming out on the white wire?
And jumping/bypass this little detour the car works with the KeyON/OFF as it should?
Verify - (Y/N?)
If Yes- then it sounds like the charger thinks it is plugged in and not connecting these two wires. I’m not sure what would cause this.
The way I set it up was to jump the 12v at the timer (orange wire) to the green wires that go to the key relay and separately to the white wire going in to th R4F charger. The black wire from the charger then goes to the key, which I have not opened. With power going that way, the key powers on the car.
I think you are saying that I should check that power is getting to the key from 16 pin connector, rather than the way I did it. I didn’t check that yet. By the way, can you please tell me where to look for that connector block?
I’m not sure you understand.
The test at the timer (jump between the orange and green wires) was only a test. It was only to show that you do not need to order any other parts at this time. Remove this jumper wire now that we know the main functions of the car are still working.
As you noted- the green wire connects the two relays, but also runs over to the charger. This is part of the key loop. With the charger unplugged, you should see keyed 12v power on the white wire coming out of the charger.
If NO, then check for 12 on the black wire going into the charger.
If NO, Check the Key Switch.
If NO, Check the 1x16 connector. It looks like this: (It may be wrapped with tape). I can see p6 (Or/g stripe). That is your target. It will be over on the right side of the dash down low.
Sorry for my lack of understanding (new at this), but will go through the steps properly next week ( no access to the car for the rest of-this week. To check the key I assume I will need to remove the cover.
There ya go. Install a flippy switch on those two wires for now (just so your car is back to running) and see what you can find for a replacement key switch.
