Hello, new to gem ownership and to this forum. I’ve done a bunch of reading other threads but have not found an answer.
We use this utility bed Gem on a vegetable farm, so it does short slow trips all day long a few days per week. It worked fine since the spring when we bought it, then the following happened:
Rainy day, lots of tire spinning trying to get around on grass hills and some mud. Possibly related? rainy work days are with some traction issues and spinning tires is not out of the ordinary.
Next day, code 82, cart would go for a few seconds then no power, 82 shows up. I was thinking speed sensor since it was also showing 0mph for the short time that it was moving.
Pulled off speed sensor, inspected wiring and magnet, looked okay, reinstalled. Pulled off 23-pin harness, inspected, reinstalled. Then, turn key, display looks normal, push the accelerator and Code 11 comes up and no power. No click that you usually hear right before moving either. I don’t get the code 82 anymore because I can’t get past code 11.
What I have now checked:
-wiring from pedal sensor checked, unplugged from both ends of the harness and reinstalled. Jumped the brake lever sensor, jumped the key switch. None of this changed anything.
I tried checking voltages at the 23-pin but not totally sure what I’m supposed to be doing. There is 74v at the controller. Meter negative to controller negative, and meter positive to pins 3 and 7 showed no voltage. I did this with the 23-pin harness removed, touching to the pins on the controller. Is that what you’re supposed to do or leave it installed and pierce insulation? I also did this with the key on, brake released.
I originally posed about this on a facebook parts group when I only had code 82 and was going to buy a speed sensor. The conversation didn’t go very far but a person suggested possible water in controller, and to remove, open, inspect the controller, which I have not yet done.
I figure I’d sweeten the pot with some pictures. Based on masking tape labels on wires on the PSDM, I’m guessing it’s been tinkered with before. Also the goop on one connection on the controller, does that indicate it’s been worked on or is that normal?
Also the goop on one connection on the controller, does that indicate it’s been worked on?
If I had to guess, I’d say yes. The rubber on the silver can (crystal?), and the super long wires on the Temp Sensor make this look like a repair. FSIP usually puts a new label on the cover, but maybe not this time.
Looks pretty good so far, but (if you still have the cover off) can you get a couple of clear pics of the board area around the base of the harness connector? (this is a very difficult area to seal from water).
Also around the two tall spires which are the Field push on posts.
When you put this back together, make sure you clean the blocks where the threaded bolts go into and the tube rests on. This is not related to your code 11 but it has potential for other problems.
It is probably too late, but spread out a nice clean paper towel and turn the controller over and give it a shake, or a bump. (looking for any loose bits that might have come loose or blown off an exploding component.
If you have already used compressed air to blow out this unit then it might not drop anything unusual.
I did do a compressed air blow out, saw a little dust but no chunks.
Attached are a couple close up’s near the harness. I didn’t get any good close ups near the F posts. I have it back together now and installed in the car, but not fully screwed together so I could open it up if those could be a culprit for the code 11.
Is the sensor in the pedal serviceable at all? I unhooked and removed it but didn’t see a way to pry it open. The other posts I saw here seem to refer to the older style. With that sensor out, the error code was 21 I believe, accelerator wiring problem. Back to 11 reinstalled.
Also there is never a clunk of the main relay anymore
Pedal
This pedal is not meant to be serviceable. It is tricky to get into, and even trickier to seal back up correctly. Once inside, there is not really anything one can do anyway.
I am not convinced it is actually the issue(others are free to jump in), but we can do some further testing on what it is doing by pinning through the wire insulation with it all plugged together (as much as I hate to violate a nice harness).
The fact that the display is normal at KeyON and the -11 comes up at pedal press makes me think the pedal switch is cycling ok.
Random Thought/Test
Q → If you pull up on the handbrake, the Brake symbol should light up on the Dash Display. If you press the pedal does the Display still switch from 0 to -11?
===
Water Ingress?
Thanks for humoring me and taking the controller cover off and looking for water damage. I forgot to mention the other place to look would be a bit of condensation on the inside of the lid. That clue is probably long gone now.
=== Stranger things have happened
Here is something I don’t think I suggested yet. It probably has nothing to do with your code -11, but whenever there is something totally unexplained, sometimes it helps to fall back on the following. Yep- it makes no sense, yet some people swear by it.
Now that the dash upper and lower dash panels are removed, locate all of the harness connectors as they plug onto the front of the PSDM.
They run around the top half of the PSDM. They are labeled J1 thru j6 in this drawing.
Thanks. Earlier today I actually did remove every connector on the PSDM, inspected (not that I would notice anything unless it were very obvious), then installed, removed and installed while wiggling. I also did the connections to the motor, probably everything except the connections at the accessories.
You’re right, I just tried it and when I press the pedal, -11 comes on, but if I keep my foot on the pedal and pull up on the brake the code goes away and it returns to a normal screen with 0mph.
Would the next best step if this were your car to swap a controller to rule out al of the sensors and connections? I don’t have that option but just wondering.
New or rebuilds of the co troller seem really expensive but this thing is also out farm “truck” and without it we’re either pulling a cart or using a tractor with pallet forks which I hate doing for short little lightweight trips all day.
I’ve been chatting around with people smarter than me, and I’ve chewed on this a bit and have something for you to try. I think we need to go back and address one obvious issue first.
This original issue started with a speed sensor issue (-82).
Order up one of these and stick it on there.
Another SWAG* → There is a chance the failed speed sensor is introducing excessive electrical garbage/noise into the system and overloading the logic board. It gakks, and throws the controller into a reboot.
Just put the new sensor in from @AssyRequired idea, no luck, nothing seems to have changed.
The part was just the sensor; I didn’t put in a new magnet as @LithiumGods mentioned. However the magnet is whole and looks normal to me. Worth buying a magnet and swapping that out too?
I don’t really suspect that I need to replace the magnet, as I don’t get an error code until I hit the pedal… before that it shows 0mph and a normal screen. Also, if it means anything, I can roll the gem 10’ back and forth fast enough that I should think some speed should show up, but it stays at 0mph.
As I was just reading another thread about a code 11, but with the older style pedal, someone mentioned disconnecting every connection in the dash and reconnecting. Although that was recommended here and I did that, I’ll do it again. Are there any priority harnesses to check that would cause the controller to keep booting? Could I check these for continuity across the harnesses?
They are all suspect, but on mine it was the the connector with the wires from the hand brake to the PWB ( PROBABLY AN ALUMINUM BOX FILLED A BLACK PLASTIC MATERIAL) On a gas motor, you would call it a brain box or electronic module. It will be located under dash on the passenger side near or behind the contactor relay… you’ll see several wires and connections to it.
OK @Cformony, I’ll check out more connectors under the dash. I really only did the main connectors down there at the PSDM. Did yours start working after connecting/reconnecting, or did you replace something? Also, were you getting the same -11 code as your symptom, or something else?
@Inwo, I realize that didn’t make too much sense what I said about the magnet. What I was thinking is that I have a new sensor in, the car is not moving, and when I press the accelerator, I get the -11 before there is any motion. I was thinking that the magnet wouldn’t be doing anything yet because nothing is rotating (no rotation, no pulses?). However, I’m sure things are more complicated than I think so I’ll buy a new magnet too. I also am wondering if rolling the cart to test the speedometer made any sense… does the motor and magnet even spin if you push the cart?
That doesnt exist in that form on the OPs 2010. If you are describing what i think you may be trying to describe’, it ceased to exist in 05. And the version you describe was recalled due to fire hazards
I’m not too sure on how to do these electrical tests, but what I did was: wheels off the ground, switch turned on, brake released (would be ready to go if I weren’t getting -11). I only have a digital meter also.
I was able to test the pedal sensor. I have 4.6v without pressing the pedal, and it goes to 0 when I press the pedal. (negative to controller negative, positive stabbing insulation of wire at pin 3 on harness).
For the speed sensor, it is all hooked up normal. I pierced the insulation of the green and black wires coming out of the sensor, and have 7.4V steady. Rotating front wheels to spin the motor and magnet doesn’t change anything. So, is a steady 7.4v abnormal? Should it be at 0 and then pulsing to something when rotating? Perhaps my digital meter just isn’t quick enough for the pulses. I also noted that the motor only spins when there is torque, so once the wheels are spinning steady, the magnet doesn’t spin and I have stop and spin again to get the motor to spin, or keep trying to spin faster.
