2000 Gem with Error codes -27 and -49

Hello everyone!

I am currently trying to resurrect a 2000 E825 that has been sitting for awhile. I put new batteries and a Delta Q charger in it. When I turn the key, two things happen-

I either get error code -27, and the motor does not energize.
I get error code -49, after the motor becomes energized and very briefly “hums” as if it wants to start moving.

I believe the solenoid energizes into place regardless of either code. (Its been a week since i messed with it.) But the codes usually trip either right away or after pressing on the gas pedal.

For reference, -27 and -49 are the following codes-

-27 12vdc supply low electrical fault check wiring, see manual

-49 motor current low electrical fault check resistance of motor and
wiring,if ok, inspect motor controller

I believe my issue is with the controller. Has anyone had any experience with this? I am happy to respond back if you give me some troubleshooting hints, just please speak in layman’s terms.

Thank you!

Matt 906962@gmail.com

What controller is in this car?

I have always associated a -27 as an internal BUS undervolt (internal to the controller, NOT the 12v power of the car).

One thing you can do to check is by pulling the speed sensor connector and trying the car again. Since it is one component that consumes 12v, sometimes without the load of the speed sensor, it may be enough to allow the car to go. The Speed Sensor plug is also a convenient point to get a read on what is on the 12v Bus.

The Tech manual actually states this could also be a bad connection at the controller plug. Verify that you have B+ on P1 and P2 on the Main Controller 23p plug.

A -49 is related to the Field coils of the motor. Apparently they are not drawing the expected current when power is sent to the Armature. Make sure connections are tight and clean.

Remove one of the F wires and measure across the Field coils on the motor. IIRC you should get about 005 Ohms(almost a dead short).

Hello AssyRequired,

Thank you for the reply and your help. Here is what I found.

Unplugging the speed sensor didn’t do anything.
I measured voltage going into the controller from the two big wires on top and was getting a steady 73v, but on the wires going out of the controller on the bottom, I wasn’t getting anything.

Could the -27 and -49 be related at all? To clarify- I see two big wires and two small wires going to the motor. So you’re saying disconnect one of the small wires and measure ohms between the disconnected wire and the connected wire?

Please see the attached pictures. Thank you!!

By the way, there was nothing plugged into the bottom row of pins of the 23 pin connector.

Could you tell me while controller this is? Thank you!

It’s a T1. Look above the top bar code, the catalog number that they overlapped the GE banner on top of. “IC3645SH7R353T1” The last two characters “T1” in this case, is how we tend to refer to them here.

Manual is here:

on the wires going out of the controller on the bottom, I wasn’t getting anything.

No, you wouldn’t get anything out of those at this time.

Unplugging the speed sensor didn’t do anything.

Clarify → What error code do you get with the Speed Sensor unplugged? Does -27 go away?

I need you to check the harness plug at the speed sensor(the 3 wire plug). You might need a couple of tiny pins to stick in the end of the connector.
KeyON. What do you get on the red and black?

Test 2- Check for ohms across the Motor Field coils across the motor lugs with one of the small wires disconnected. Be careful about twisting the whole stud on the motor.
** Note that there is a nut on the bottom where the insulator is coming out of the motor. You might need to stick a thin wrench under there to hold the lower nut in place as you remove the upper nut.

With the speed sensor unplugged the -27 code did not go away. I also couldn’t get any voltage reading from either side of the speed sensor connector.

Ohms between the field lug and the heavy gauge lug was 007.

Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated.

Forgot to mention. The -27 code went away again randomly for about a minute, with just enough time for me to press on the pedal, feel the motor engage (very sluggishly) and then get the -49 code.

JarJarJava and AssyRequired-

Some exciting developments. I found a used controller and installed it. The error codes immediately went away. However, as I started to drive it, the there was a very low pitched garbled robotic humming noise coming from somewhere. It drove fine for about 20 seconds and then the controller made a loud bang and literally started smoking.

Any thoughts? I am going to try and install the old controller and see if it powers back up with the same codes or if its really totally dead.

I either had a 2nd really really bad controller, or something else is causing this. Thank you!!

Congratulations. You just grenaded* a controler!

That expert diagnosis will be a dollar-2.98 please.

Ok, seriously, i think you may have just gotten a chit controller

*: TM, ℗, OU, K, P & C Old_Houseboater

I owe you both money and the drinks of your choice. I really appreciate all the help. The guy I got it from has a few more so I’m going to try another one, in addition to the previous just to make sure. Is there anything on the cart that could be shorting out or causing my controllers to blow up?

More questinable controllers? Awesomesauce!

All i want for Christmas is you to film it with a couple go pro cameras and a soundtrack overlay of the benny hill theme song before uploading to you tube!

T1 & T2 controller, 2000-2004 model years, were not really water sealed controllers. They put them inside the cab, but most gems back then did not have doors. And the dash was about as water sealed as a screen door. I would also question the storage conditions or source of someone with a pile of controllers. Not many indoor car junkyards. Dismantlers yeah, but where does the stuff sit before it gets chopped?

Any kind of corrosion, oxidation of the aluminum or distortion of the plastic ends makes a controller suspect. Also, 20 years is just a long time for those electronics.

Maybe a deadshort in the motor but i think the controller is (supposed to be) protected against that. @AssyRequired knows the circut layout better than i do, as its been a while.

Reviewing this thread finds this statement curious.
Before wiring up the next controller double check these readings.

It’s been a while, but these may be close.
Between F1 and F2 should be 005 to 003 ohms.
Between A1 and A2 should be about 003 to 001 ohms.
Any of these studs and the motor cas should be open (OL on your meter)
Any of the F to the A posts should also be OL. (no connection).