So, why a tax break for hybrids and ‘alternative fuel vehicles’ but not EV’s?
because there are technically no full scale production EV’s out there yet…
…That’s what you need to keep in mind if you want to understand why regulation is the way it is. It’s the same thing in Europe. This link will shed some light on the process of car regulation:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-airboard11apr11,1,7245966,full.story
So why tax brakes for hybrids and no tax brakes for EV’s? To understand that you need to realise that though an EV may look like a regular car on the face of it, it is in fact a completely different kind of animal. And a very dangerous species of animal at that from the viewpoint of mainstream car manufacturers. The “problem” is that an EV is structurally infinitely more simple than an ICE car. Technically It basically consists of a battery pack, one or more electric motors and some electronic circuit boards. All of these parts have long life spans,need hardly any maintenance and are easily and cheaply replaceable. The problem for the car manufacturers is evident: there is no way to limit the lifespan of EV’s. An example may be electric forklifts that generally last for decades. So EV’s will cost car manufacturers a massive chunk of turnover from sales of new vehicles, car parts and maintenance. This makes the EV of all the alternative propulsion systems the least attractive type for the car industry. Hybrids are okay though. Rather than less parts they consist of a lot of extra parts which makes them expensive to build (so they won’t be too competitive compared to ICE cars), complicated, expensive to maintain, and generally keeps their lifespan short. Hydrogen is probably their favourite, at least the concept that uses ICE engines that burn Hydrogen rather than gas. This means they could keep making the same basic cars that they have been doing for the past hundred years. They don’t want to change a winning formula. No fancy pancy new technology, just business like usual.
That is what is motivating me. I would love to thumb my nose at them and the oil boys.
I agree. It sounds a bit like when the FDA was trying to claim vitamin-C as a drug so they could control it for profit. Everything is about money these days. It’s disgusting at best.
What I don’t get is why the government is only regulating MPG to 35? We were achieving those numbers 40+ years ago. You see people retrograding to Japanese made compacts from the 1980’s, because they average more than that on tired engines.
My friends carbureted Toyota pickup gets 33mpg in town. And it was made in 1986. There is simply no excuse for the lack of thought put into the congress and laws for further emissions.
Why no tax break for those of us who ride a bicycle, skateboard, rollerskate, walk or cartwheel to work every day? Seriously, there should be a tax break for not owning an internal combustion engine of any kind (lawn mower, etc.). We don’t need them anymore.
At the very least, I think the US Gov’t. should regulate power:weight ratio along side fuel/ energy. Or at least tax vehicles in excess of a certain power/mpg : weight ratio. We have gas guzzlers tax on muscle cars, but trucks and SUV’s pull the same emissions and mpg numbers and get off scott free.
Do you think those of us who are still cruising around in Suzuki/Geo Metros, getting 50+ mpg on the regular are getting a tax break, while these ungodly stupid excuse for a hybrid SUV owners are at 35 mpg? Of course not.
We don’t need to rethink energy. We already have that dialed and zero point energy is there if we want to use it for anything. Zero Point technology was developed durring WWII and we still haven’t moved on it because of greed and power.
What we need to do is rethink core reasoning behind regulations.
DOT and FAA among others have to report to the EPA, and that’s all they care about. Passing the law, even if the law makes absolutely no sense.
Look at the air/smog pumps on cars. This mechanical devices only perpose is to serve as lowering emissions. The official allegid reason it works is because when you inject oxygen into hydrocarbons, it helps atomize it along with a catyletic converter, but the real reason it works is very rudamentary… It dilutes the exhaust with clean air.
They found a loophole, which is the use of a PPM (parts per million) measurement system to determine the amount an engine pollutes. They screwed up and didn’t calculate the PPM against the volume, or CFM (cubic feet per minute) of exhaust gasses. The system with an air pump doesn’t necessarily pollute less, it just has a lower hydrocarbon PPM, because the air pump adds a very significant CFM to the entire exhaust.
About the only functional perpose I have ever seen one of these devices used for was when it was accompanied by an oil catch can system and used for a crank case evacuation pump on a road racing '72 Plymouth Cuda.
I’m tired of engineers and politicians being paid by greedy profitteers to dodge a bullet and do anything they can to carelessly continue to think inside the box.
I wonder how difficult it would be to take a bill to congress proposing tax breaks for anyone getting better fuel economy than the lowest hybrid standard (35 mpg) ? And that’s not a permanent answer, but it’s a start. The vast majority of the public hates change and will actually make it more difficult on themselves to avoid it, than embracing or even allowing it, so maybe a positive financial incentive will motivate? Negative influences at the gas pumps don’t seem to be changing anything on an important scale.
I came into this section of the forum with a glimmer of hope that maybe I could benefit from making an EV with taxes (which seemed to make sense to me)… hahaha… I’m still going to do it, but it’s a bit of a dissapointment to see that the government has more incentives for hybrid powerplants than fully electric.
Here’s a theory. The car companies and oil companies own parts of each other, hidden from the casual check by front companies, hedge funds, ect. However the money makers want to hide their ownership in each other. With the car makers owning oil stocks, they have a financial incentive to keep MPGs down, since that means they can continue to make money off the car after the sale.
I mean, I’m sure that everyone has noticed that just as soon as Congress passed the law forcing them to increase mileage, right on the heels of a test method change for the EPA that makes it harder to pass, that the manufacturers have already come up with ways to get the mileage within the time limits. And, they are bringing them out now rather than later, knowing that as the end of the changeover comes up people are going to stop buying cars that don’t meet the new standard since waiting a year or two will mean 5-10MPG better.
[QUOTE=DaveBonds;2483]What I don’t get is why the government is only regulating MPG to 35? We were achieving those numbers 40+ years ago. You see people retrograding to Japanese made compacts from the 1980’s, because they average more than that on tired engines…[/QUOTE]
Because government can’t quickly change the amount of oil we consume without also increasing the tax rates associated with it - Government NEEDS the income from oil (Sales tax, income tax, lease royalty, etc.) Michigan added an extra tax in diesel in the early 1980’s because so many of us started driving 50 mpg Rabbit diesels and 30 mpg Oldsmobile, that the “revenue” from oil was dropping.
[QUOTE=DaveBonds;2483]
Why no tax break for those of us who ride a bicycle, skateboard, rollerskate, walk or cartwheel to work every day? Seriously, there should be a tax break for not owning an internal combustion engine of any kind (lawn mower, etc.). We don’t need them anymore…[/QUOTE]
Again, same reason - they do not generate “revenue” for the largest business on earth. And the move we use them, the less revenue we generate for Government and business. 
[QUOTE=DaveBonds;2483]Look at the air/smog pumps on cars. This mechanical devices only perpose is to serve as lowering emissions. The official allegid reason it works is because when you inject oxygen into hydrocarbons, it helps atomize it along with a catyletic converter, but the real reason it works is very rudamentary… It dilutes the exhaust with clean air…[/QUOTE]
This is even worst on the new diesels here - the air exiting must be cleaner that the air entering the engine… Plus, during the carbon filter (DPF) cycle, the engine dumps raw diesel into the exhaust to burn the carbon off as CO2. Remember, all diesels send more air than the air/fuel mix every stroke… The rest of the world already drives 50 - 76 mpg diesel cars here, but they automaker don’t think we want them, and don’t want us to think we want them because they do not make enough profits from small cars.
With the exception of the Toyota selling for more than 2x the price of the same Toyota, but sporting a Lexus name tag fooling stupid people into thinking it is a German car, all the automakers get their profits from trucks, SUV, and large cars. Example: my Jeep Rubicon had a sticker of $29K, but the base unit was $14K… More than double for options. Some was pure profit. The “duel” top option was $1400 because I had the Rubicon - the top dog. The exact same option for all the other levels was only $1200… so $200 extra profit for nothing. Toyota has this down pat. Remember, auto makers need big profits, and the government needs them to make big profits too !
[QUOTE=DaveBonds;2483]I wonder how difficult it would be to take a bill to congress proposing tax breaks for anyone getting better fuel economy than the lowest hybrid standard (35 mpg) ? And that’s not a permanent answer, but it’s a start. The vast majority of the public hates change and will actually make it more difficult on themselves to avoid it, than embracing or even allowing it, so maybe a positive financial incentive will motivate? Negative influences at the gas pumps don’t seem to be changing anything on an important scale.[/QUOTE]
There is one huge problem with this, other than what I mentioned about Tax revenue and profits - if many of us start driving EV’s the entire tax structure for roads and governments fall apart for 2 reasons. We will not be paying taxes on gas to maintain the roads we drive on… and more important to the government, we will be using an energy source we can make ourselves for FREE !! (After we buy PV and wind turbines) Free means zero revenue streem to the government.
This is why they are subsidizing the automakers for EV development as long as the EV is using a fuel cell for the battery. We can not make our own hydrogen and store it / pump it w/o very very expensive and risky equipment.
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