Have you checked the main relay? If you have the finned dc converter than it probally has the timer and main circuit relay. Those main trays go bad. If you jump the gray and white together it will force the contacter to engage. If this solves your issue the main relay is bad.
If you need a controller I would check with someone here first to see if they have one for sale. If not send it to flight systems yourself and have them rebuild it.
@AssyRequired the thing about the display not working any more tells me something is stopping the controller from powering up. Won’t matter if the contactor is working or not if the controller will not power up. That reminded me of when I pulled my Zivan one night and tried to get to work the next morning in the GEM and got nothing. Later David told me about the two wires and I looked them up and saw they were the Charging disconnect mechanism.
So I can’t post the JPG image I have of the circuit? PM me and I’ll share with you.
I did not read that. The round speedo plugs into the top of controller so you are probably correct.
Wow, thanks everyone for your help. I think Bundcur is unto something. I received the schematic from AssyRequired (Thanks!) and was using it to trace out the low current 72V system through the PWB, I now know the 72v signal from the keyswitch is not getting through the timer relay to the main relay. The timer relay is signaling the key is on to the “main relay” as someone called it.
This is a 12v relay that takes the constant 72v and powers the GRY/WHT wire to the motor controller.
I know the main relay is working, I tested it out of the car with a 12V source. What I don’t understand is how it’s suppose to operate. It uses a (BLK) 12V- from the DC converter and the B- from the timer relay. I don’t see how this would ever change the state of the coil.
Controller needs B+ on p1 and p2 to turn on.
If nothing else work connect them together, hot wire.
P1 is always on p2 is indirectly through key, timer, and charger interlock.
1 Like
I don’t, for the life of me, understand how or why the timer was involved in the key circuit.
In my hand was the timer and “main relay” I don’t understand the function of the timer. It was set to 1 second. On top of that there is no 12v signal from the key to make it change states. From left to right you have a 12V- (BLK), 12V+ which is 12V to the key (ORG/GRN), and another 12V+ from the DC-DC converter (BLU). The switched load is tied directly to B-(GRN) on the Motor Controller.
The main relay has 72V+ (WHT) when the coil is activated it sends 72V+ (GRY) back to the motor controller. The coil is connected to 12- (BLK) same as the timer. And B- (GRN) again, same as the timer. The coil needs 12V+ to activate the only way this was happening was through the timer and used B- (GRN)
Putting a 12V+ on the B- just seemed like a bad idea. Correct me if I’m wrong. Since the timer wasn’t working I wired around it. I used the 12V+ (RED/GRN) from the key right to the main relay coil. I turn on the key, it activates the coil, closes the main contactor. And everything is working again.
I plugged back in my headlight harness. The YLW/GRN wire in question before is the ground for the wiper motor. It isn’t really needed because the mounting points act as a ground for it. I hooked it back up anyways. Won’t hurt.
I thank everyone for the time and assistance! Couldn’t be happier we’re back on the road. And please, if someone could explain the purpose of the timer maybe I’ll order one and put it back in… someday.
1 Like
Timer is a time off delay relay. Imo serves two purposes.
- Keeps dc circuits lights alive after key-off
- Prevents minor glitches in key/interlock circuit from killing lights and drive circuits.
P3 is 12v grd
P6 is trigger (12v from constant 12v supply after passing through charger interlock-relay and key-switch.
P2 constant 12v from dc-dc
P1 timed off output to dc-dc enable circuit
I scrounged this from a previous thread. I’m not exactly sure how your 2000 got all this wired up. Perhaps it was part of the dealer recall/upgrade?
From Inwo:
Timer p1 activates conv P3
12v thru key and interlock activates timer p1 for xx seconds after P6 goes off. (key)
Timer p3 12v grd
Timer p2 12v always
1 Like
That’s exactly what I needed. I’ll order another timer and install it properly. Not sure who was wiring on this rig. I know I have receipts for service from a golf cart place around here. Probably never seen a gem dealer.
I think what was wrong with my setup was when they replaced the charger.I no longer have a GRN from the Zivan Charger, and I doubt it was tied to B-. For that circuit to function it would have to be 12+ from the RED/GRN keyswitch internally through the charger. I’ve read on here that the GRN was an interlock of sorts to prevent you from driving off while plugged in.
My quiq charger has a GRN interlock but it’s a large 12awg wire not connected to anything. There’s a tag on it specifically stating not to connect it to the chassis or 110 ground. It’s to be used for the interlock. I’ll have to grab that manual and figure how to tie it in. Then I can go back to normal. My 12v system works all the time, with or without the key. So I’ll figure that out as well when I replace the timer.
The way mine was cobbled together couldn’t have been right, so I’m glad I found it and reached out to the community here. The group has a tremendous amount of knowledge and you’re all very helpful.
Thanks again, will update with progress!
More info on that Time Delay Relay- (note: these links may be old)
Also - IIRC from the other post, That diagram printed on the back of the relay is NOT correct and does not relate to the actual outputs related to the pinouts.
Do not use green. Its for newer cars. Yours uses an isolated dry nc relay contact.
Many dq have the relay inside. Newer Gem specific dq’s do not.
Not sure how to use quotes. But Inwo, what do you mean by a dq? The Delta-Q?
Since my 12v works all the time I’ll have to figure out how to get it turned on/off with the key as well. My thoughts are it’s switched on with the BLU from the timer. This must be done internally from the DC-DC converter.
I do have a small GRN from the Delta-Q that I remember seeing. It’s possible that I’ll be able to use that just like the Zivan Charger circuit. But the interlock wire is a large 12awg. At least that’s what it’s labeled.
Yes Delta-Q.
Yes, BLU to converter is enable. +12v = on.
No the Green wire is not used. It is used to supply 72v to the key circuit in newer Gems, on unless charger has ac power.
You may not have a charger with an interlock relay. Not super difficult to add, but it’s internal to charger.
May be easier to add a nc relay to ac power plug.
I’m sorry I did not see this earlier. Just went through this entire fight when the Zivan charger on my 2000 took a dump. One day everything worked great the next day NOT. I had it narrowed down to the time, then on a lark pulled the Zivan out, jumped the interlocking and everything started working again. Purchased a Quick Charger 7210 with temp compensation and interlocking direct from factory (I never was able to get an answer from ride for fun…) all works as should!
@Batman7349 - That makes sense.
I guess the early cars do not have a charging/interlock warning light. Instead, they have a Charge Status LED which tells what stage of charging the charger is applying to the batteries but that just goes out when the charger is unplugged.
The Ride$Fun charger is a rebranded SCO QuickCharge 7210 without temp compensation.
1 Like
Dang… I hate giving out bad advice. Not for ego, but it’s a waste of time going in the wrong direction and the possibility of smoking components.
I’ll have to study up on early cars a bit more.
I’ll make you a good deal on an '02 w/ lots of upgrade parts…
(forklift not included)
I need to chase a few more projects off the workbench first. If timing is right I may just hook up the trailer and top off the tank for a road trip.