GEM seems to discharge quickly

GEM Forum
1

Hi. I’m relatively new to this forum. I inherited a GEM 2002 from my Dad. Here’s my question:

Is it normal for the batteries to discharge quickly when the GEM is not being used (and not plugged in)?

Yesterday, I fully charged it. The charge light was full green. I unplugged it. This morning, less than 24 hours later, I got in the GEM. The charge indicator showed a 90% charge. I’ve noticed that when I leave the GEM unused for about a week, the charge seems to drop to about 60-70% charge even without use. If batteries stored on a store shelf discharged this quickly, batteries would need to be charged before they were ready for use by the customer. I’m concerned there is something wrong with my GEM.

Here’s the rest of the story …

Last fall I replaced the batteries with Costco RV/Marine batteries. (I didn’t want to spend an additional $700 for the deep cycle Trojan batteries. I only use the GEM for very short trips.) Because we’ve had a very cold and wet spring in the San Francisco Bay Area, I’ve used the GEM very little. The weather now has turned warm and so I’m using it more … but still for short (2-3 mile) round trips.

The battery water level is full. I have not added any water since the batteries where new.

Is the quick discharge normal? Maybe I have a bad circuit (short?) that drains the battery? Maybe because I’m using the cheap Costco batteries? Maybe because the charge meter is very inaccurate? What do you think???

Thanks,

  • Simon
2

[QUOTE=simonc;9211]Hi. I’m relatively new to this forum. I inherited a GEM 2002 from my Dad. Here’s my question:

Is it normal for the batteries to discharge quickly when the GEM is not being used (and not plugged in)?

Yesterday, I fully charged it. The charge light was full green. I unplugged it. This morning, less than 24 hours later, I got in the GEM. The charge indicator showed a 90% charge. I’ve noticed that when I leave the GEM unused for about a week, the charge seems to drop to about 60-70% even without use. If batteries stored on a store shelf discharged this quickly, batteries would need to be charged before they were ready for use by the customer. I’m concerned there is something wrong with my GEM.

Here’s the rest of the story …

Last fall I replaced the batteries with Costco RV/Marine batteries. (I didn’t want to spend an additional $700 for the deep cycle Trojan batteries. I only use the GEM for very short trips.) Because we’ve had a very cold and wet spring in the San Francisco Bay Area, I’ve used the GEM very little. The weather now has turned warm and so I’m using it more … but still for short (2-3 mile) round trips.

The battery water level is full. I have not added any water since the batteries where new.

Is the quick discharge normal? Maybe I have a bad circuit (short?) that drains the battery? Maybe because I’m using the cheap Costco batteries? Maybe because the charge meter is very inaccurate? What do you think???

Thanks,

  • Simon[/QUOTE]
    [B]Hi Simon and welcome:yo:. There should be several here that can address your concern. Hope you can get the problem solved as it would be a problem having a dead battery when out and about in the Bay Area.

Gene…
[/B]

3

You may have what is known as a “draw.” This is something small left on in the circuit that slowly drains the batteries. There is an easy way to test for this. Fully charge the batteries to a green light, unplug the charger, and then open the master switch under the seat. This will completely isolate the batteries from the rest of the circuit. After two days, close the master switch, turn the key, and read the battery gauge. If the gauge still reads almost full, the problem is not the batteries. Most batteries will lose about 1% of charge for each day spent unused at room temperature.
A second possibility is that the batteries are dirty. An accumulation of moist acid residue on the tops of the batteries will lower the resistance of the circuit by creating a small current path. Always keep batteries and cables clean. Auto parts stores sell cans of spray battery cleaner.
A third possibility is that one or more batteries have developed low internal resistance and need replacement. Fully charge the batteries to a green light, then accurately record the voltage across each. Next, take hydrometer readings in each cell and record any discrepancies. Last, use a hand held load tester to check each battery. Wait several minutes between each to allow the tester to cool.

Daniel

4

[QUOTE=simonc;9211]Hi. I’m relatively new to this forum. I inherited a GEM 2002 from my Dad. Here’s my question:

Is it normal for the batteries to discharge quickly when the GEM is not being used (and not plugged in)?

Yesterday, I fully charged it. The charge light was full green. I unplugged it. This morning, less than 24 hours later, I got in the GEM. The charge indicator showed a 90% charge. I’ve noticed that when I leave the GEM unused for about a week, the charge seems to drop to about 60-70% charge even without use. If batteries stored on a store shelf discharged this quickly, batteries would need to be charged before they were ready for use by the customer. I’m concerned there is something wrong with my GEM.

Here’s the rest of the story …

Last fall I replaced the batteries with Costco RV/Marine batteries. (I didn’t want to spend an additional $700 for the deep cycle Trojan batteries. I only use the GEM for very short trips.) Because we’ve had a very cold and wet spring in the San Francisco Bay Area, I’ve used the GEM very little. The weather now has turned warm and so I’m using it more … but still for short (2-3 mile) round trips.

The battery water level is full. I have not added any water since the batteries where new.

Is the quick discharge normal? Maybe I have a bad circuit (short?) that drains the battery? Maybe because I’m using the cheap Costco batteries? Maybe because the charge meter is very inaccurate? What do you think???

Thanks,

  • Simon[/QUOTE]

Hey Simon,

I too and new to these forums and Gem Cars. But have learned a lot about them in a short period of time. I recently had the opportunity to speak at length with one of the top Service Tech’s from the factory in Fargo, ND.

After learning and speaking with him, it is my belief that it is the Costco batteries that you installed. It is by far the most common problem seen and heard from by the Tech’s at Fargo.

There are so many reasons why the correct batteries must be installed. Trojan’s or Deka (gel) batteries are twice the battery than the Costco brand and have much different specifications. Also, most Gem car chargers have preset (or sometimes programmable) charging algorithyms for a specific set of batteries, unfortunately Costco is not included.

My belied is that you will continue to see the poor results and quick discharge without use times, until Trojans or the proper battery is installed.

5

Thanks to GEMmechanic and ForeverGreen for your responses to my question about my GEMs discharge problem.

In regards to GEMmechanics suggestion … I followed his suggestion of charging then disconnecting the batteries via the master shutoff. I shut it off for 24 hours (not 48, as suggested). I noted a 5% drop in charge after 24 hours. HOWEVER … as soon as I had taken the key out of the ignition, I thought … "maybe I had my foot on the brake while I did the test? I wasn’t sure because I automatically put my foot on the brake when I release the parking brake in turning the GEM on. So, I put the key back in the ignition. Released the parking brake and made sure my foot was not on the brake pedal. I was surprised to read the charge as 85% … only a few moments after it read 95%. I did it again and again the charge read 85%.

It seems that the charge indicator may be very inaccurate. It’s hard to believe a reading of 85% immediately after a reading of 95%.

As per GEMmechanics suggestion I did check all the battery connections. They are all clean and show no signs of corrosion.

To do any further investigation of my discharge problem, I’m afraid I’d have to have someone from GEM come out and diagnose the system. My guess is that they will find nothing wrong and blame it on the Costco batteries. Who knows???

In regards to ForeverGreen’s comment on the Costco batteries … I guess I’m not the only one trying to save money by buying cheaper batteries. If the cause of my problem is really the costco batteries, I guess I’ll live with it until my batteries are no longer serviceable. For now the cheap batteries are working adequately. I do short trips on flat terrain just two or three times a week. Maybe I need to charge them more frequently, but this is what happens when one buys “cheap”. You get what you pay for.

It would have been nice to “solve” my problem and I thank those who responded to my question in an effort to help me. But the bottom line for me is that I can “tolerate” the situation given my limited use of the GEM. Hey … I got it for free (inherited it from my Dad) and it cost me about $500 in Costco RV batteries to use it. I think … not a bad deal. Besides it’s fun to drive!!!

  • Simon
6

is your charger a zivan ng1? Did you get the update yet? Would probably be good to update and get the float charge option which will keep the batteries charged when you are gone.

7

[QUOTE=Susp3nc3;9404]is your charger a zivan ng1? Did you get the update yet? Would probably be good to update and get the float charge option which will keep the batteries charged when you are gone.[/QUOTE]

Susp3nc3 -

Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately I know very little about my GEM (2002). How do I find out what kind of charger I have? IF my memory services me correctly … a number of years ago, someone from GEM came out and replaced something based on a recall notice … but I’m not really sure because the GEM belonged to my Dad at the time.

If I don’t have the “ng 1” type and it’s not a recall item, about how much for the upgrade? Also, what are the advantages?

Thanks,

  • Simon
8

I have only had my 2002 Gem e2 for about a week (just put in the batts 2 days ago). Just open up your dash and look for the charger. There will be a plug on the bottom of it (like a regular extension cord female end). Look to see if it says Zivan and it should have the model name (NG-1). If you have the upgraded charger you will have and upgraded sticker on the front of the charger as well as the 2 regular stickers instead of just the regular 2 stickers and you will have a knob to change to different battery types. I personally do not have the upgraded one.

This is the sticker from the upgraded one…

see it says “micro upgraded”

from what i understand if you are away a lot and don’t use the cart as daily or every other day… it would probably be a good idea to get the charger upgraded. I believe a whole new zivan is at least $500, if you do not have one. The old “Schott” chargers are supposedly crap…

[QUOTE=simonc;9406]Susp3nc3 -

Thanks for the tip, but unfortunately I know very little about my GEM (2002). How do I find out what kind of charger I have? IF my memory services me correctly … a number of years ago, someone from GEM came out and replaced something based on a recall notice … but I’m not really sure because the GEM belonged to my Dad at the time.

If I don’t have the “ng 1” type and it’s not a recall item, about how much for the upgrade? Also, what are the advantages?

Thanks,

  • Simon[/QUOTE]
9

We have now updated all three of our GEMs equipped with NG1 chargers. The cost per charger has never exceeded $200. Here is a link to the Zivan Distributor:
Zivan Charger Sales & Service and GEM Charger Repair

Daniel

10

the batteries are fully charged take it out say 2+ miles …drops one bar… take it out again without a recharge within an hour … goes about a mile then drops down instantly to red bar and goes into turtle mode… does not happen all the time but when it does it sucks…reciently installed a new stereo powered from the + side of the first battery behind the driver position and Neg off the third battery … this gave me a reading of 13.1 in a 50% charge … could I have a short from the radio ?? what do you think

11

Try not to let it get down to a 50% charge. Cacurran, what year GEM do you have? It is better to have the stereo powered from the dedicated 12 volt power source that is for radios. That way, the electrical draw from the radio is spread across all of the batteries. Try and see if the range improves with the radio disconnected.

Daniel

12

Thanks man in going to not use the radio