Hi, I need some verification from the gurus on the forum. I’m a newbie working on a 2002 GEM E825 I got a few months ago. Batteries are all good and charged. One day car worked fine and I parked in the garage, the next day it doesn’t work. No display on GDI, but emergency brake will sound if I disengage. I’ve checked ignition switch (GOOD), checked E-Brake Switch (GOOD). I know I have old pwb board (v2) that has not had recall to new closed unit. I have been going thru the Drive & Power System Troubleshooting Chart in the service manual, proceeding through initial 6 steps til I get to step 6 where it has me check voltage on the B+ input of the Motor Controller. It says if the voltage is approx. 72VDC, to replace the controller. I tested and I’m over 72VDC. Is this test accurate and pretty conclusive? Am I sure I need to run out and BUY a new Controller? Any other things I should test? Again, I’m a newbie, so not sure what else to check or what to do next before buying and changing out equipment. Thanks for any assistance in advance.
Switch off the master battery switch for ~60 seconds and switch it back on again. Watch the display. Does it do anything?
What does the display do when you plug it in to charge?
Have you had the top of the dash off to poke around under there yet?
When you plug the car in to charge do you hear a faint click and maybe(hopefully) a faint whirr of the charger fan? Unplug charger again. Normally, this can’t be plugged in to go.
Locate your charger. There are two smaller wires with push on connectors going to the driver side of this charger. (I think a red and a green). These are your interlock wires, pull them off, pretend to inspect them and push them back on. Try key again.
What procedure did you use to check the key switch?
Depending on how you answer the above, it will direct the next group of suggestions.
Here are the answers to all your questions: When master switch is off for 60 sec and switched back on, the display shows 0000 for a few seconds, then off. No other time is anything displayed on the BDI. The display does nothing when plugged in to charge, but the light on dash lights up as normal and changes colors based on degree of charge. I’ve had the top and bottom dash off (Been trying to troubleshoot on and off for 5 weeks), just found this forum a few days ago. The charger fan runs and everything charges fine and that part of the system seems totally normal. I have been continuing to keep batteries charged every few days to make sure those don’t go dead. I removed the red/green wires as you mention, and put back, but don’t think there is any charging issue whatsoever. Also all batteries were fully functioning 12+ volts each prior to the start of issues 5 weeks ago. Batteries are less than year old. Key switch was checked multiple times and ways. First I removed wires, check connections, put back. Removed again and sanded terminals to make sure all was clean and good connections, removed wires, and bolted together to bypass on/off and then also used alligator clips to bypass the switch. On another group I asked questions weeks ago, it was suggested I check the ebrake switch - did that and that is operating properly. After checking for the easy culprits like key switch and brake switch, I started on the troubleshooting guide listed above.
Please don’t do that. If you can’t get it swapped out under recall, LMK - I have a fully working new style one and an intact harness in my 02 that is getting parted out. I’d hate to see you have to pay what they charge for a new one.
Thanks jrjava. Trying to make sure the controller is really bad before doing anything. If I need a replacement, I’ll message you first.
Of course, I wouldn’t want you to buy it if you don’t need it or don’t want it.
Perfect! That is a lot of meaty info to go on. Believe it or not there is some good signs in there.
One thing you missed was after playing with your interlock connections did you try the key again? A more desperate move is to just hook the two Red and Green wires together (bypassing the charger). Since your charger actually appears to be working, I doubt this will show anything different.
Next- Take your meter and probe the B+ and B- connections on top of your controller. You should have ~72v on those. Y/N? (I think you said this elsewhere?)
Also: Do you think you can post a pic of the right side of your electrical system. Over by where the new potted PWB is located. I want to see if I can figure out what version of Wiring might be in your car.
Yes, after playing with the interlock connections, I did try key again, and nothing. I checked the B+ connections on the controller and that was ~72V. The troubleshooting guide says if this is the case, I need to replace the controller. I have not yet tested the B- side to see what voltage is there. I can do that real quick and report back. I have the old PWB (not fixed with recall yet), but I believe it is version 2. Here are some photos I already have, but I can obtain a few more when I check the B- connection.
Ok, hope this helps. On top of controller, B+ measures ~72V, B- measures 0. B- is 0 whether key is on or off. Here’s a few more photos:
Your Zivan NG-1 isn’t updated either. No surprise.
Don’t think that was an NTSB recall though, just a Zivan thing maybe. Not a critical update so long as you aren’t running Trojan batteries. They basically upped the aggressiveness on the charger for them.
Only the importer does them, Electric Conversions in Sacramento CA. And they are SLOW, it’s a one man and his dog operation. (seriously, the shop dog is super cool, but really old)
Just bought the GEM in November, was running fine then. Previous owner told me the Zivan had been replaced last May and Batteries were less than year old. Batteries are cheapies though but work fine for now. They are marine batteries looks like, but very low amp hours. Around my golf cart community it will be fine for now, but not sure of my total miles per charge yet (when running).
To be honest, I don’t have any idea if they make the Zivan NG-1 anymore or not. So based on what you just said, maybe it does have the upgraded program. For the original ones, they put a white sticker on the front of the unit that had info on the updates. It’s actually just an eeprom they swap. Takes like 12 seconds.
Unless you are running the monster T-1275s or XH30’s (like 155Ah and 135 respectively) it probably doesn’t matter.
If it’s working, don’t worry about it. Lead-Acid sucks and it seems most of us end up with lithium packs from @Inwo anyway, so that changes the dynamics of what charger or what setting for the older carts.
jrjava the Zivan i have has a picture above with the sticker on it if that helps. no idea if it’s been updated or not. The batteries are actually sealed gel batteries, so no messy acid or water.
Usually, when checking for pack V, One uses both the cables on top of the motor controller. Each meter lead on B+ and B- .
What were you using when checking B+?
And again when you were measuring your B-?
Were you using frame?
(seriously, the shop dog is super cool, but really old)
Sounds like he might be about ready for a dog upgrade too?
Sorry guess I mis-understood (super newbie here). When you said to check B+ and B-, I thought you wanted them checked independently. I just checked across from B- to B+ and get 72V+. Earlier I was using the battery ground for ground, since I didn’t know what else to ground on (got my first voltmeter today) . Is that ok or should I be using the frame?
It was an additional white paper sticker that said “Microcode updated …(specs)” I should have been more specific.
Not a problem. Just wanting to be be clear.
We can get into some basic electrical theory later.
More to check- Do any of the 12v accessories work?
Turn key ON.
Brake lights?
Head lights?
Just checked accessories. With key on, no brake lights, and no headlights. I tried wiper motor as a bonus, nothing there either. As a footnote, wiper motor is in place, and makes a noise when turned on (when I first purchased car - not now) but there is no wiper - very little rain in Las Vegas.
Ok- So this is why you were having a serious look at your DC converter/PWB being an issue? Do you feel up to probing some pins on that to look for why it is not outputting any 12v?
I can do that, but I need a crash course on how to do that. Should keys be on/off, power on/off, plug in or out, etc, etc and where you want me to ground the voltmeter so I get correct readings. I have a few things going on today but think I’ll have some time today.