All good advice. When you say “swapping the controller”, is there no internal programming (via wrench)? I thought I either heard someone say or read that when replacing the VCM or the BMC and even the Motor Controller…that each of them would have to be re-programmed to match each individual GEM specifications (such as identifying the battery pack, the motor, model, etc). Is that not true, or only applies to the BMC and VCM? So hypothetically, if I had another e6 w the same year/motor/battery pack, that I could use that controller on this problematic GEM with no problem?
Tomorrow I plan on the following: 1) double check the controllers LED to see if it is solid or flashing. 2) remove the encoder and see what the GEM does. 3) while encoder is out, look inside the hole and rotate the motor/wheels to see if inside wheel is damaged. 4) will remove the controller, do a shake test and then see if I can pull the cover to visually inspect the pcbs for anything that looks abnormal.
Controllers can be swapped without reprogramming. (controller) A new one must be programmed.
I should have asked earlier, what code is blinking on controller? It clears after reset so look immediately after a fault.
- the Motor Controller has a steady LED light, no flashing/blinking/faults throughout the troubleshooting. - with the encoder installed and the pedal is pressed, the tires rotate only momentarily and then stop…same as before. - with the encoder removed and the pedal is pressed, the tires rotate but at a VERY slow rate (like 5 secs per 1 rotation) and if any small pressure is applied while its rotation, it could be stopped with no effort (both FWD & REV). - while encoder removed, I was able to see the gear rotate freely inside and noticed nothing abnormal on the gearwheel’s teeth. - I disconnected the Motor Temp Sensor and the GEM’s dash would show a MTR HI TEMP w no movement. - I removed the Controller from the GEM and then removed the cover, there was no obvious/visual (nor smell) indication on the pcbs of any failed component.
So, I’m back to banging my head against the wall w frustration. This is what I’m thinking about doing tomorrow and pls tell me if it’s a good plan or what possible issues I might have in doing so. The retirement community has another identical e6 GEM that is working w/out any issues…I plan on taking parts, one at a time, from that working e6 and install each one at a time on this problem GEM and see if the problem goes away. First I will replace the Encoder, then the Controller and finally the Motor. OR I can do the reverse, taking each of these 3 parts from the problem GEM and place them on the working e6 to see if the problem transfers along w that part. Do you see any problems with attempting this method of troubleshooting? I hesitate to follow this path of troubleshooting since placing a ‘possible’ defective part into a working vehicle could potentially induce new problems that wasn’t there before…or vice versa, placing a working part into a troubled vehicle could damage that new part. But, I feel I’m at a dead end here. suggestions on this plan??
When you removed the encoder the first time, did you pay attention to which direction the bolt/tab was pointed? Some of these motors have two mounting holes for the encoder. The encoders don’t like to be facing the wrong way.
the Mahle motor on this e6 has only one bolt hole for the encoder and only goes in one way…but to answer your question, yes, I mostly take pics or vids of items/systems I’m not familiar with before tackling them just to make sure I can return everything to where it was before I touched it.
what are your thoughts on my proposal of swapping parts? any pitfalls or issues that suggest I shouldn’t do that?
Look for the blink code before turning off key. Controller must fault without encoder. The problem is catching the code while it’s failing. I suppose a bad controller may not set a code.
That is a good point about not having a fault LED blink on the controller when I disconnected the enoder. You know, I actually reviewed that list of blink codes from a BorgWarner webpage, but my mind didn’t associate with it when I disconnected the encoder. Not only that, in an earlier msg I sent I stated that when I disconnected the Motor Temp Sensor, the instr cluster did show an error HI TEMP for that (I didn’t think about looking further for the P-CODE/SPN/FMI though) , but when I disconnected the encoder, there was no fault displayed on the same cluster for that absence!
I was looking at the LED while another person was in the cab turning the key and pressing on the pedal…there was no change in the solid LED display on the controller while the encoder wasn’t present. It is interesting that neither did the controller LED blink (stayed solid) nor was there any P-CODE/SPN/FMI fault code on the instr cluster with the encoder removed/disconnected. what gives?! I should have been given something like…
Is there any reader/device out there short of proprietary-Wrench that could read from the diagnostic port that is available to the average Joe, just to read and not to program? Where are these P-CODE/SPN’s stored on the GEM, in the VCM or the controller or…??
fyi…I’ve decided against the swapping of parts from one GEM to the other. I proposed this solution to the owner of the working GEM and highlighted the possible pitfalls of maybe introducing problems onto their GEM and that was frowned upon…and I’m not mad about that. I wanted to be transparent about all possibilities and because I too was concerned about it. So, back to banging my head.
So, no codes while faulting?
I wonder if @grantwest or one of the guys has a controller to rent. Any of the guys whom upgraded the Sevcon controller for a generic one, would have one on the shelf. @djgabriel2004 in florida, maybe.
I can see how some codes would set a fault immediately (sensor missing, overtemp), but I’m guessing some of these would take time to set and not appear at KeyON.
Perhaps the obvious issue has yet to fully register with the controller.
Can you run car in it’s present state (wheels up) for a minute or two?
Do you have the ability to record and post a short video snip of what it is doing?
The ones posted set immediately during fault and stay until power cycle. At least that’s how a good controller works. Driver must get out and look before turning key off.
Each blink code has several causes, but dvt is only needed to break it down to an exact cause.
I would absolutely be in favor of anyone renting me a motor controller for testing, if available.
Here is a link to the video (.MOV) on my Google Drive for anyone to look at. Please let me know if there are any issues viewing the video and I will find another way to access it. Viewing the vid on GoogleDrive has terrible resolution for some reason, the vid is much better if you download the file and then view it. Again, suggestions/comments are welcomed.
Q: if a motor controller is not available for rent or testing, would I be better off sending out a message on the forum for purchasing a used controller and not have the additional expense of programming? If I install a different controller, either new or used (to replace this one), would the VCM/BMC need reprogramming to recognize this different controller or would it simply be plug-n-play?
would I be able to request a phone number from someone to opening discuss this w/out having to go through the forum?
Put a meter on your controller (B+ and B-) and check for pack V.
Then keep it on and press pedal.
Does PackV remain stable?
Does Green light remain ON? ← can you scrounge up an assistant for this part? (watch it through the cycle)
It is almost like the controller is crashing/rebooting due to a power drop?
(This theory falls apart because after controller reboots it does not throw a “Found pedal down on startup” fault )
Possible Theory - aka spitballing - aka SWAG
The controller might see this power dump if there is a problem with bad contacts on the main relay. Controller powers up and boots off one of the minor power wires. When commanded to go, the main relay closes and there is no real amps to support a hungry motor.
Again, there should be a fault code for this. It might be clearing due to the controller reset.
A generic programmer kit needs no other programming. It does need some wiring. Ie. Hard wire forward, reverse, and throttle. Last resort, IMO. Unless it’s for speed hot-rodding. As it’s totally reversable, it may work for trouble shooting use.
Most of the cost is programming and proprietary wire harness and development. New Sevcon controllers are only $500. Looking at the $500 wiring part non-refundable. Let’s see how desperate you get. I am no longer in the business and not looking for sales. Only to help in a pinch.
