Hello, just recently traded an e-bike for a Gem 2002 car. Seems that one of the previous owners did well with maintenance and upgrading everything with the recalls and stuff that I can see. One of them is the charger it says on there it has been micro upgraded I2 increased and T3 extended. My question is can I just plug n play with this charger being that I’m upgrading to lithium batteries (36v x2). Or should I just grab a newer charger? I’m going with the Enjoybot Bluetooth batteries 100ah. Getting them to fit is going to be fun but that’s part of the fun for me customizing crap. That is the sticker on the charger. I ordered another charger I’m just curious if I can use the stock charger I’ll just return the one I ordered and put that $ somewhere else into the car. Thanks in advance, btw I’ve searched and I can’t find a straight answer, before the flames come out. Hopefully these boards aren’t like that.
I can’t find a straight answer
can I just plug n play with this charger being that I’m upgrading to lithium batteries (36v x2)
If you want a short and straight answer → Not advisable.
There are some cases where we have played around with the concept, but you really need to be aware of all the factors involved.
What does the maker of your battery suggest?
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Personally, I don’t really like the plan to drop in a couple of cheap batteries (2x36v) off amazon either. This opinion might be swayed if only to get the car rolling, the car is lightly used, and if the batteries are charged properly.
Fitting a battery may seem like an easy thing to do, (and it may even work great for a while) but you are heading down a path that many others have tried, only to be disappointed later. There may be success stories out there, but they tend to not come back in here to log their success. Usually the pack fails within a year.
It’s not that easy
There is quite a bit of planning that goes into a properly designed lithium pack needed to power these gem cars. Charging them up is also an important part of that plan. The only way to charge multiple packs in series is to give each one a dedicated charger. In your case, this means 2) 36v chargers or you keep a very sharp eye on them and check them often for balance.
As you have noted. A twin pack of those batteries (2x @ 20.4 x 10.6 x 8.66 in) is going to be difficult to package into a Gen1 car (you did not say if this is a 2 or 4 seat car).
But it is totally up to you. It is your project. Prove me wrong.
This group is totally all about coloring outside the lines and running with scissors.
The archives here are a very valuable tool in understanding the path of those that explored what it takes to use these cars beyond their original designs. Sometimes these mods worked well, and sometimes there was smoke. Use the archives to avoid the smoke as best you can.
Normally, I’d agree with you. I think this is what happens when the tech guys in the back write one page and the marketing guys up front write another. Ironically, this lack of comms between 2 entities carries through the whole company.
Having multiple (independent) BMS units in a pack (not talking to each other) is not a good formula for series or parallel (each one has quirks). This was the reason for the industry beckpedal to “no more than 4”. Now, it appears some companies are catching on and tightening their restrictions.
Idk the manual that came with gives instructions for preparation for the 2 batteries to be connected in series. Ie charge them separately to full then connect them in parallel for 12-24 hours to stabilize and then series them. I also had direct contact with them in their support tech area. And they gave me the same direction basically. They said the previous generation had the multiple battery issue so they pulled it back. But the new batteries are solid. Idk. We’ll see, it’ll be a good experiment. I don’t plan on keeping this too too long but I’m definitely customizing it a bit. lol
Thanks for the replies. I went ahead and ordered a new charger as well I’ll pull the zivian out in a bit. My car is in a thousand pieces right now. I’llm also going to be putting a YouTube series on this stuff. Just for fun little project. Nothing professional at all just a dude with a cellphone cam documenting stuff.
My two cents, is get another charger. My 2002 came with an external charger from the previous owner(s). I have a Lester Summit II on my Club car that I’m converting to Lithium. It should work fine with Lithium. And, the GEM has a Delta Q charger. It has an Anderson Plug on the dash to plug into. The old charger is still in it, but I’m certain it doesn’t work and I haven’t attempted to remove it. No reason to while the cart is working. If my Club Car lithium build goes well, I’ll probably build some for the GEM. I’ll probably have a case made by Alibaba so it will fit better. I had one made for the CC. I just don’t have the tools anymore to build my on and it really wasn’t very expensive.
I had already ordered the 36v (for initial setup and occasional balancing) and 72v chargers ahead. And I was anticipating the response would be, from most, to get a purpose built charger as opposed to the zivian. I just wanted reassurance from some of you more knowledgeable people.
You wont need that charger assembly anymore. It it really just crap and fails often. I would instead use the empty space there to install other accessories, or another charger that will support lithium charging. This charger tends to short out and cause fires. In addition, since these are made for lead acid, the voltage it varies and can cause overheating to lithium. Lithium chargers tend to start off on a lower voltage and creeps up to a target voltage that will allow it to fully charge to over 72v.
Roger that! I’m gonna remove it today. I think I’m just gonna keep the new charger outboard but still use the existing charging port near the seat. I balanced the batteries already and installed them. Working on all the wiring and stuff now for the rest of the cart, lights, 12v outlets, audio and accessories. I have a solid state digital switch panel going in I’m gonna keep the brain under the seat so it’s easier to access as opposed having to pull the dash if need to do some maintenance or trouble shooting.
I get that. But have you seen the design of the zivan charger? All of the openings and gaps allow dust, moisture, and bugs to get inside and create shorts. Similar to the PWB recall. One of the e825s I have originally caught on fire at the charger. I believe it’s one of the reasons why they went the delta q route because that unit is tightly sealed.
A lot sample of one does not make a majority (“prone to”) as your assertion claims.
I’ve been to the sole us distributor of the zivan chargers and spent hours talking with him. You are not alone in thinking that there is a restriction in the ventilation on the charger, as he would add extra vent holes.
We also discussed the charge curves a bit. Pretty interesting. Lot of possibilities there. Some Zivans are more capable than others. Some have 3 modes, some have 8+. Its not quite the one trick pony it replaced.
Fire on the other hand, you’re treading in NTSB territory.
As for why the change to DQ, that’s a gem engineering question.
