Suggestions on a Hill Climbing Setup - 2000 4 seater GEM

GEM Forum
1

Looking for some advice on the right setup for climbing long, steep hills with my 2000 4 seater.

Here’s the scoop - For me to get out of my little pocket of San Diego and go any real distance, I have to go up and over a pretty large hill (Del Cerro hill for anyone local). The longest stretch I have is about 1.5 miles and ascending 500 feet, believe it’s 15%+ grade at certain points. Unfortunately, that climb is usually on the return trip so if I run around too much before hitting the hill, I could get stuck. When I get to the top of the hill, everything is hot and you can tell the car is straining… summer I got an overheat code on the T1 controller (have a new t2 in the garage I just haven’t gotten around to putting in).

I’ve been curious to check the voltage at the bottom to the top. I think last time I did it I was at 70% going into it and ended up at 35-40% at the top. (fortunately for me, if i make it to the top, it’s all downhill to my house from there)

My setup -

  • 2000 GEM 4 seater
  • Ride 4 Fun Motor
  • Ride 4 Fun 14" wheel package
  • 6 wet cell marine batteries (6 months old) - yeah, yeah… i get it… not ideal batteries. I just needed to get the thing going when I bought the car as it had a mis-match of group 27 batteries (i knew that going in and negotiated that out of the purchase price)
  • T1 controller, which will probably get swapped out to a new T2 when the wife is black friday shopping
  • 10.xx:1 ratio gearbox

Potential options

Re-gear the gearbox - I think what I need to do is re-gear the gearbox to 12.44. I’ve read just about every post on gearboxes on the forum and the answer seems to be, call Marlon… I shot him and email and gave a call/text but haven’t heard back (mind you, that was this week and it’s a holiday week so not terribly surprised… and marlon would be awesome since he’s out of the SD area).

Do you guys think this is the right move? What do you think I’ll lose in terms of speed? Part of the reason I put in the r4f motor was so I wouldn’t get run over on 35 mph roads and to climb the hill; I don’t need to do 40+ but would like to do at least 30-35 on the flats. Any idea where I can source parts? (Rodney?) . Found a couple of complete gearboxes on Ebay but the seller wasn’t sure how they were geared.

I’ve been obsessively readying the forum about the Lithium conversions… figure shedding weight couldn’t hurt. I’ve learned a heck of a lot through the forum; head was spinning like crazy in the beginning but I’m piecing it together. The tricky part is folks are learning VERY quickly so what someone did in '16 and posted about, they probably won’t do today. Don’t be surprised if you see yet another lithium dummies post from this guy.

Question here would be even if I did Lithium, would I still want to change the gear-ratio anyway? If so, I might as well start with the gear option first and see how I’m doing. Also, there was a lot of suspension discussion for the earlier GEMs… is that still valid? Will it run like crap if I shed all that weight? I’m going to stuff myself will turkey but that definitely won’t make up the 400lbs :slight_smile:

Side but related note - I have another thread going about flipping a cheap 4 seater I picked up. casually threw out the idea of keeping it for a lithium experiment and daggers flew out of my wife’s eyes!!! so that’s out. :wink:

Is there anything else I should be considering?

  • Guess I could go back to the stock 12" tires but those look lame. Not that I need it looking fully customized and “pimped” out, just a little better
  • is there a bigger motor I could try? figure that will get me up the hill faster but won’t help with amp draw and capacity
  • ??

Appreciate the advice!
-Ernie

2

I don’t know as much as a lot of guys on here. But I will say the lead cells make a huge difference or what ever lithium you chose. The weight is a big help.

3

If you can hold on a couple weeks, Troy should have his PMAC motor running.

4

your 2000 has the 9:8:1 Transmission. That gear box is great for the flats. But it’s got to be the worst for hill climes with larger wheels.

Swapping out a transmission is a 4 hr job and may set you back $500 for a used 12:35 transmission, it’s gonna help the situation but not completely fix it. So I would say if you had one laying around “why not”

Getting rid of the flooded lead acid battery’s and going Lithium will set you back $3500. It will fix your hill climb issues but it will also create ride and suspension issues that you will have to overcome

You may find a nice 2008+ car for around $3500-$4000 keep your eyes open. In my opinion I would not spend another dime on that 2000.

If it was me I would look for a newer car and start from their. You have to spend so much money on the older cars just to get them even with the newer cars. And in my opinion you spend all this money and time on the older cars and the ROI is crappy.

1 Like
5

Lithium will make you cart go up hills faster but you will probably still have heat issues . the 12.xx will do you well . With the R4f motor you will be able to do 35 . Lots of people want the 10.xx and the 9.xx gear boxes so you can probably swap someone .

6

Whoa… I didn’t even know there was a 9:8:1 option… but good to know! Thought it was 8.9, 10.35, 12.44, and 14.76 from what I pieced together on the forum. Parts manual only has 8.9 and 10.35 so figured 10.35. Is there a good way to confirm without pulling out the gears and counting? via serial number or something? Mainly because if I’m going to swap with someone, want to make sure I’m being straight forward with what I’ve got.

This guy has a newer gear box listed on ebay from a 2010. He doesn’t know how it’s geared. Thought I read somewhere that the newer GEMs were 12s -

Would that even fit in my 2000?

I hear you on the ROI discussion and get the logic. This is my learning platform… I’m well beyond the logical stopping point already :slight_smile: Idea is to hang onto this one for a couple of years to mess with and see if I continue to use it. Hopefully by then, folks will have figured out what you can do with the re-designed GEMs and I’ll start seeing some on the used market that I can get into.

Thanks all for the replies.

If anyone is looking for a lower geared gearbox and they have a 12, let me know!

7

Connect an analog meter to the green and black or green and red tach wires.
Push the car slow and steady 1 tire revolution. Count pulses and divide by 4. Or two turns/8.
More turns = more accuracy.
If you have a counter, makes the job simpler. I have one that plugs into the tach plug for testing.

8

OK… i’ll give that a whirl. Also found Rodney’s manual method if I can get the gearbox out of the car. I have another one sitting on the shelf I can evaluate. Thanks!

9

Just to “close out” the thread …here’s where I landed

  • picked up a used 12.44 gear box off a 2010 e4. Hoping it will fit… think so but won’t know until it arrives. Figure I need to do this regardless of batteries.

  • Updated my craigslist alert to include 2008+ GEMs. If I saw a good one in the 4-5k range I’d probably jump. Still going to mess with my 2000 and use as learning platform

  • sooo… I may have pulled the trigger on 4 Chevy Volt Lithium 44v 12s batteries after a few beers while watching the turkey smoke over Thanksgiving. Probably won’t actually tackle an install until Jan / Feb with everything going on. There are so many Volt conversion threads, debate if I need to document mine unless I run into issues… I’d really like to drop in 6 of these so I could make it to the beach and back (about 15 miles each way).

Thanks all for the input and discussion. This message board is great!!!

1 Like
10

So… how did it go? Where are you at with it now?

11

@Streetman - project has been a little slower moving than I had planned. Ended up buying another GEM that I got a screaming deal on but needed some work; so I put my lithium project on hold until I got the other one fixed and sold. Throw in adding a baby to the family since this original post and it got back burnered.

BUT - I’ve actually been working on this pretty aggressively this week. Took a 1/2 day yesterday, today, and tomorrow off to work on in. I have a thread going for my install. I need to post an update now that I’m making some progress. Got most of the battery cabling done. Now I just need to figure out the DeltaQ charger and BMS… and wiring that up. Hoping I can at least go for a test ride tomorrow without the charger and BMS installed.

12

I’ve got over $6,000 into our 2002 and then it dawned on me that I could have purchased a 2013 Nissan Leaf with only 50 miles range left for $6000. I joke that I would take the doors off so it had some of the fun factor of the GEM. :slight_smile:

But I have enjoyed doing the mods even if it still rides like a 1950’s Willys Jeep.

13

hahah… i totally feel you. I think i bought mine for like 1800… 500 here, there, another 1k on whatever… I’m probably at around 6K too! It’s a heck of a lot of fun though. I’m a hands on learner so it’s a fun journey

1 Like
14

There’s a guy in Florida who literally does that with Neons.