# Understanding lithium for Gems **URL:** \ **Category:** GEM Forum\ **Created:** [July 25, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477 "2020-07-25T18:52:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kevin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2acd7d/32.png) [@Kevin](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Kevin)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/82 "2021-07-01T02:38:01Z")
Ah, thanks. I won’t be home for another 3 weeks so can’t take measurements, but assume the 14inch height shouldn’t be a problem? How much for each? ---
**Author:** ![nfeenstra](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/nfeenstra/32/8451_2.png) [@nfeenstra](https://community.electricforum.com/u/nfeenstra)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/83 "2021-10-10T18:31:11Z")
Gentlemen, it’s been several months but I returned the Dakota lithiums for a full refund and then purchased (6) 72v Allied lithiums wired in parallel for a total of 108Ah. They fit in the compartments of my 2010 e4 and have performed very well. One problem that I am still having is when I charge them to 100%, a relay/solenoid sticks which won’t allow the motor to engage. After some time it works again and then is fine until I charge again. Do you know where this device is located and is it faulty? ---
**Author:** ![AssyRequired](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/assyrequired/32/7621_2.png) [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/84 "2021-10-10T18:43:27Z")
When you take the car off charge and try to go does it happen to throw a wrench and display a 16 code? > One problem that I am still having It sounds like you were having this problem with the other batteries also? > purchased (6) 72v Allied lithiums wired in parallel for a total of 108Ah. Whoa, whoa, whoa!! What exactly are you doing here??? (This is exactly what Inwo said he does NOT like to do) Can you send a link to the batteries you purchased? Maybe some pics of the batteries under your seat? Perhaps you meant 6) 12v batteries wired in series for a combined voltage of 72V? ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/85 "2021-10-10T19:20:11Z")
> [@AssyRequired](#): > > does NOT like to do) From bad to worse. How much money do you really save using undersized batteries in parallel? ---
**Author:** ![JarJarJava](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/jarjarjava/32/15158_2.png) [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/86 "2021-10-10T23:41:48Z")
> [@nfeenstra](#): > > I returned the Dakota lithiums for a full refund and then purchased (6) 72v Allied lithiums wired in parallel for a total of 108Ah. They fit in the compartments of my 2010 e4 Holy crap… ![allied 72v li-ion](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/d/d0da4728e07ccdf68d1c5db04aa1f6d99ee6cce1.jpeg) That’s direct from Allied. But hey, at least they threw in free shipping. For that money, you almost could have bought a whole Gem with bigger li-ion batteries already installed, working and tuned. Shoot, for a few grand more I’d might have sold you my 2010 w/ a 2p22s 88v 120Ah Volt pack… ---
**Author:** ![nfeenstra](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/nfeenstra/32/8451_2.png) [@nfeenstra](https://community.electricforum.com/u/nfeenstra)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/87 "2021-10-11T00:27:51Z")
I did not have this problem before I replaced the batteries. After full charge, I turn the key on, release the brake, and step on the pedal. Nothing. There is typically a “click” when I set forward or reverse and step on the pedal, but no click and no go. If I wait a half to full hour, now I get the “click” and everything is good again. Is that a relay or solenoid. If so, where is it and can I replace it? ---
**Author:** ![nfeenstra](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/nfeenstra/32/8451_2.png) [@nfeenstra](https://community.electricforum.com/u/nfeenstra)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/88 "2021-10-11T00:30:40Z")
Yeah, a lot of $$. But it was the best option I could find that I knew would work. I run my GEM as a road legal at up to 40 mph and I need a lot of power. ---
**Author:** ![LithiumGods](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/lithiumgods/32/672_2.png) [@LithiumGods](https://community.electricforum.com/u/LithiumGods)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 1:02am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/89 "2021-10-11T01:02:49Z")
they are good quality batteries, should serve you well for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![JarJarJava](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/jarjarjava/32/15158_2.png) [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/90 "2021-10-11T01:15:03Z")
I don’t even own a “normal” car anymore, so yeah, I understand where you are coming from; in spite of the irony that it’s not actually working… The behavior you are describing when the vehicle comes off charge is exactly how the gem controllers behave when pack voltage is too high. Key-on is fine, but the moment you touch the pedal, it shuts down and throws an error code. I used to get these all the time in my '02 that had essentially 7 batteries and right off charge the combination of the two packs could exceed the 94V (96?) volt hard coded input voltage limit. BUT, you haven’t mentioned any error codes, and the 2009 uses a T4 which has a higher tolerance for overvoltage (it’s noticeably over 100V - I forget what the exact number is though.) If it were me, I’d take voltage readings the moment it comes off charge. The whole 1s6p pack and each individual “battery”. Then again 30 minutes later after a little bit of self-discharge has occurred. You don’t happen to have the ability to talk to the BMS in each of the “batteries” do you? See what the individual cells inside each one are doing… BTW, 40mph on an '09 is up there. Out of curiosity, what gears / motor / tire diameter setup are you running? 35 is as far as I’m willing to push my '10 on 23"s and that’s only for shot runs, and I’m running an 88v pack ---
**Author:** ![AssyRequired](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/assyrequired/32/7621_2.png) [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 1:30am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/91 "2021-10-11T01:30:04Z")
What he said ^^^ Again- Does your dash display show any codes? ---
**Author:** ![JarJarJava](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/jarjarjava/32/15158_2.png) [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 1:48am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/92 "2021-10-11T01:48:09Z")
76.4V nominal should be fine, but look at the charge specs / BMS cut outs. Methinks you might need a voltage shunt on the 24-pin going into the controller. Those batteries might be coming off the charger pretty hot. @Inwo Dave, what say you? * * * NOTE: The first upload of this data sheet was absolutely wretched. Virtually illegible. Sorry about that - I didn’t check the output file. The one below is a new conversion that is clean and legible. uploaded at 10/10/21 - 21:55 PST. ![Data_Sheet_72V_18Ah](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/d/d80c84ba64b62de2c0ff97b7c2598749d93296d3.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![AssyRequired](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/assyrequired/32/7621_2.png) [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/93 "2021-10-11T02:34:47Z")
Which is why a meter would be good about now. Maybe all of his batteries are shutting down for overcharge? Theory: Wired up in parallel, eventually- one of them kicking back in would bring the car back online allowing it to drive off (on 18ah). With a Max peak discharge current of 32A(18A continuous) I wonder how long it takes to trip that BMS. Then another one or two will come back online. Situations like this will make for a very unbalanced pack. With no way to monitor. ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 3:00am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/94 "2021-10-11T03:00:52Z")
> [@LithiumGods](#): > > they are good quality batteries, should serve you well for a long time. The allied drop ins? They have a good record in Gems? Parallel bms are a cluster \*\*\*\*. Nothing good can come from multiple bms. Hell I can’t keep one working 100%. Proper and equal cabling is a must. Cross connected in and out cables. ---
**Author:** ![JarJarJava](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/jarjarjava/32/15158_2.png) [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2021, 5:17am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/95 "2021-10-11T05:17:51Z")
> [@AssyRequired](#): > > , eventually- one of them kicking back in would bring the car back online allowing it to drive off (on 18ah). With a Max peak discharge current of 32A(18A continuous) I wonder how long it takes to trip that BMS. Ohhhh… Interesting idea, certainly seems plausible. From the TDS: Max discharge current: 18A Peak discharge current: 32A (10 seconds) BMS cut off: \ **Author:** ![seminolemark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@seminolemark](https://community.electricforum.com/u/seminolemark)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/96 "2023-09-25T15:39:22Z") Good Day! I would like to get my charger reprogrammed for lithium. Is there a link you have that I can use to fill out the needed items? Thanks Mark ---
**Author:** ![AssyRequired](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/assyrequired/32/7621_2.png) [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/97 "2023-09-25T16:22:57Z")
@seminolemark - This request needs more information attached to it. - What charger are you running? - What lithium pack did you install? (Do you know the cell type and count?) - Where are you located? ---
**Author:** ![JarJarJava](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/jarjarjava/32/15158_2.png) [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/98 "2023-09-25T23:56:56Z")
> [@AssyRequired](#): > > - What charger are you running? > - What lithium pack did you install? (Do you know the cell type and count?) > - Where are you located? - Does your dog bite? ---
**Author:** ![ledft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@ledft](https://community.electricforum.com/u/ledft)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/99 "2024-03-16T12:47:39Z")
An older thread but appropriate. I have a 2022 E2 and my distance pack AGMs completely lost capacity at about one year old. 18 to 20 miles on a charge and power diminished completely. I worked out a deal with my dealer to install a lithium battery and was really pleased that it was from LithiumGods. So the battery didn’t come with any documentation so I have a few questions. Maybe LG can chime in at his leisure or others here might know. In the first post on this thread, LG writes that lithium doesn’t like being charged to 100%. Does that mean that I should be pulling the plug on my charger before the end of the charging cycle? Should I expect my battery to be NMC chemistry and the best application for GEM cars? Should I start to panic if I see my monitor start to dip below 10%? Does the monitor have any other features besides the one displayed? The buttons don’t seem to do anything but I wasn’t sure if there might be a secret combination (not that I would probably understand any of the functions). I read somewhere that a 6kWh battery was good for about 40 miles. My typical ride is about 20 miles and the monitor shows about 50% remaining so can I assume I have a 6kWh battery? Now I understand this battery was plug and play and no adjustments were made to my car. It probably still thinks it’s lugging around hundreds of pounds of AGM batteries. If I want a battery with a little more stamina in my 2016 E4, will it be this simple? I hope to have Gabe add a little speed to it seeing it’s out of warranty and I run the heater often in the winter so a little more capacity might be needed. A long post here but I’ve been reading this forum for years and it’s not the longest post by a long shot.😂 ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 5:09pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/100 "2024-03-16T17:09:25Z")
> [@ledft](#): > > In the first post on this thread, LG writes that lithium doesn’t like being charged to 100%. Does that mean that I should be pulling the plug on my charger before the end of the charging cycle? > > **No, it’s automatic. Set by charger and bms** > > Should I expect my battery to be NMC chemistry and the best application for GEM cars? > **Yes, battery is EV quality and perfect for your GEM** > > Should I start to panic if I see my monitor start to dip below 10%? > \*\ ***No, only that you might get stranded. generally battery will restart after tripping and you can limp home** > > Does the monitor have any other features besides the one displayed? The buttons don’t seem to do anything but I wasn’t sure if there might be a secret combination (not that I would probably understand any of the functions). > **No but the BT app gives you more options** > > I read somewhere that a 6kWh battery was good for about 40 miles. My typical ride is about 20 miles and the monitor shows about 50% remaining so can I assume I have a 6kWh battery? > **No, range varies. It may be though. Do you have a picture or desription?** I have a 10kwh battery for 2016 plus Gems. And two will fit. 🙂 Easy enough for self install, but like your other battery it needs protection from the elements. It comes with a vinyl cover, but needs a “floor” as the back of the new Gems is wide open. Not sure what LG has. Same as the one you have, I assume. ---
**Author:** ![ledft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@ledft](https://community.electricforum.com/u/ledft)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2024, 6:28pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477/101 "2024-03-16T18:28:27Z")
Thanks. All good info. My wife is out with the car so I can’t take a picture but it won’t say a thousand words. Just a black box with the 2 terminals and pigtail for monitor on the right side of it. Neat and clean install. Nothing else about the car feels different than when new. I imagine LG will chip in sometime and let me know what I’ve got in the trunk but so far I’m happy and a lot more comfortable than with lead technology. I’ll get a picture later though. [Previous page](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477.md?page=4) [Next page](https://community.electricforum.com/t/understanding-lithium-for-gems/19477.md?page=6)