# New Lithium conversion! **URL:** \ **Category:** GEM Forum\ **Created:** [April 1, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430 "2020-04-01T16:28:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/1 "2020-04-01T16:28:00Z")
![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/e/e581cd6668fbee2029016f48dbc3a821a5ede92d.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/3/3a724ba92eb4b20b3ac09deed01c1c94991ca436.jpeg) Just completed my lithium upgrade. Only driven it one day so far, but WOW! What a difference! I ordered 25 135 Ah batteries from China, matched them into 12v batteries “packs” and installed them. I used 1/4” by 1” silver plated copper to bus them together. The problem now is too much voltage at the controller and getting the error code “16”. My pack is reading about 92v fully charged. Need the “spoof”. If I wait a couple hours after charging the voltage will drop enough to use it, or I can put a load across the batteries to knock of the higher float voltage. I can reduce down to 24s but I wonder if they would be overcharged. Now the gem accelerates up hill to the governor. Much faster acceleration and no lag. So far the best thing I’ve gone to the gem. Time will tell if it’s reliable. Here’s some pics ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/2 "2020-04-01T16:31:46Z")
![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/a/a29cfd159a7976da79877a0aac4fc4f9933b066a.jpeg) ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/5/58eea83f98044c93561594490dee9762adf70a66.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 4:42pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/3 "2020-04-01T16:42:51Z")
I use about a 7.5v spoof on 25s lifepo4. Discrete balance boards for those that will protect your investment. ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/b/b474d50ffa7a722a4ad2527195f6519b6022221d.jpeg) $5 each cell ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/0/058c882e1f251b451e023bffee5306510eb32e08.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/4 "2020-04-01T17:00:02Z")
> [@basco](#): > > I ordered 25 135 Ah batteries from China, Do you have a link. All the ones I found, shipping was a killer. Total cost near $3k 😲 ---
**Author:** ![LithiumGods](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/lithiumgods/32/672_2.png) [@LithiumGods](https://community.electricforum.com/u/LithiumGods)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/5 "2020-04-01T19:38:35Z")
your not running a balancer? what are you charging with ? ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/6 "2020-04-02T00:53:38Z")
No balancers yet, wondering weather to get BMS or balance boards. Using the standard DeltaQ charger. Batteries charge up to between 3.5V and 3.7V, but after a minute of driving they are all at 3.3V. Also need a SOC meter, any recommendations? I built a simple voltage divider to get the voltage down about 78V at pin one to get rid of the “error 16”, but now I get an error 45 and error 15. I set pin one back to factory and bypassed one cell. Drove 22 miles today and still felt like full charge when I got home. I’m new to this so any info is appreciated! ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 12:59am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/7 "2020-04-02T00:59:13Z")
What exactly is a “spoof”? 🙂 My simple voltage divider worked in theory but not on the Gem. I could get it to register about 75-78V but when connected to pin one the voltage would jump all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 1:03am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/8 "2020-04-02T01:03:40Z")
I PM a seller on eBay who was selling a similar battery and asked if he could get a bigger Ah battery. He put together a deal that was posted directly to me on eBay. His English is very broken but the batteries got here. Many of them had test data written on them with over 140Ah. ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/9 "2020-04-02T01:54:13Z")
Spoof is a device that drops voltage a specific amount, no matter the voltage or load. A bms doesn’t do much for you unless it displays cell voltages. I like the shunt balance boards best. How did you balance cells to start? Bottom or top balance? If you ran with one cell disconnected you will need to start over. Lifepo4 are near the same voltage full to empty. So there is no way to know soc from voltage alone. ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/10 "2020-04-02T04:42:19Z")
So I need a spoof. Do you make them or sell them? Or have directions to make them? I initially top balanced but I’ve disconnected two different cells for different reasons so need to redo. I think bottom balancing would be better anyway and then use balance boards to avoid overcharging? Balancing is no fun. I’ve got a 800w resistor load I can discharge with to a set voltage. I was thinking 3v ? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 9:10am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/11 "2020-04-02T09:10:07Z")
I use a 7.5v 5w zener in p1. Bottom balance when using bms or no bms. Imo My balance boards have two led indicators. Power led comes on 2.5v to show cell is not over discharged. Balance led comes on about 3.6v and loads cell until below 3.5v. Makes balancing easy. Slow, if way off, but easy. Stop charging when a few leds come on. Wait repeat. A single cell charger or loading high cells with 12v bi-pin lamps, speed things up. These are elite power acquisition boards that I use stand alone. If interested, I have a few cpu boards with can and video out. Gave out a few samples, but nobody has taken the time to connect them. ---
**Author:** ![LithiumGods](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/lithiumgods/32/672_2.png) [@LithiumGods](https://community.electricforum.com/u/LithiumGods)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 5:35pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/12 "2020-04-02T17:35:29Z")
"If you have cells going above 3.5v you need to have a balancer/shunt on them . They will get more and more out of balance on every cycle . In a short period of time some cells will go over 4.0v . Looks like you have a nice setup . protect it . ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/13 "2020-04-03T02:05:28Z")
Do those balance boards need any interface with anything or are they stand alone? It looks like a small ribbon cable coming off. Here is my homemade discharge rig. Ugly but works! ![image](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/e/ed1fcbdd2feedefee59046742081f18188e492b4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/14 "2020-04-03T02:27:03Z")
They work stand alone. I cut all the ribbon cables off. I have 40 of the that clip on. That way I can test 40 at a time. As they were all empty to start, I can mark the capacity of each cell as the balance led comes on. Then bypass that cell and continue. Mine are new old stock with 80-90% over spec. 70ah get sold here and ebay. Any over 40ah are useful the rest are scrapped. ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 2:30am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/15 "2020-04-03T02:30:36Z")
What is your c to c distance? I can send you some to balance your pack. Send them back when your done. I can also send a zener if you want. ---
**Author:** ![LithiumGods](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/lithiumgods/32/672_2.png) [@LithiumGods](https://community.electricforum.com/u/LithiumGods)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/16 "2020-04-03T15:59:01Z")
![halogen](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/uploads/electricforum/original/2X/7/709bf756a7fc38015a44e0e2586428e71ca12926.jpeg) This is my balance tool . Have a handful of these . Most balances and shunts cant hold back a DQ charger on a cell level . I clip these on if a cell starts getting to high . IF the balancer and this cant stop it . Unplug charger , wait 30 min and plug back in . Works great . ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/17 "2020-04-03T17:53:32Z")
So one the pack is balanced, is it balanced forever? (As long as you don’t mess with it). I’ve been knocking down the higher voltages with my resistor bank but it’s a pita. It’s 105 mm between terminals. Those balance boards look tempting! ---
**Author:** ![LithiumGods](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/lithiumgods/32/672_2.png) [@LithiumGods](https://community.electricforum.com/u/LithiumGods)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/18 "2020-04-03T18:08:44Z")
NO Lifepo4 cells will continue to go out of balance if you are fully charging them (above 3.4v) . ---
**Author:** ![Inwo](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex030/user_avatar/community.electricforum.com/inwo/32/1067_2.png) [@Inwo](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Inwo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/19 "2020-04-03T18:42:47Z")
Send them back if you don’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![basco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@basco](https://community.electricforum.com/u/basco)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430/20 "2020-04-03T18:47:39Z")
Thanks for all y’alls help. I’m bringing all the batteries down to 2.6v to bottom balance. If I put balance boards on them that balances them at ~3.6v, wouldn’t that be top balancing? Also, I got 22 miles out of these in hilly terrain on my first charge. Then I discharged them down to 3 volts and while checking capacity. Even after 22 miles I still pulled about 45 Ah out of the batteries. [Next page](https://community.electricforum.com/t/new-lithium-conversion/18430.md?page=2)