# Gem displays 4 things briefly when ignition is switched on then goes blank
**URL:** https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280
**Category:** GEM Forum
**Created:** [April 28, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280 "2023-04-28T23:01:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/1 "2023-04-28T23:01:45Z")
Hi all… Has anyone seen this before? When ignition is switched on, the display shows the odometer ( I think) then battery capacity, then odometer again (?), then 0000, then turns off. The car won’t move.
Thanks!
Mike
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### Author:  [@dougl](https://community.electricforum.com/u/dougl)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/2 "2023-04-29T01:01:34Z")
first thing you should always do is verify your batteries( all of them ) are in good enough shape to power the vehicle. Unloaded you should see over 12.0V and upto 12.8V on every battery and they should all be similar within +/- 0.1V
If the battery voltages are low, under 12.2V then you should charge them. Testing an electric vehicle with questionable battery charge and/or batteries will cause lots of tail chasing.
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### Author:  [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/3 "2023-04-29T04:05:00Z")
Guessing this is an 00-04 gem?
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### Author:  [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 6:35am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/4 "2023-04-29T06:35:07Z")
This is normally what is supposed to be displayed when the Main Batt Switch is first kicked ON.
You are saying this is also happening at KeyON?
Has the DC Converter/Recall swap been done on this car?
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 3:46pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/5 "2023-04-29T15:46:42Z")
'02 Gem… Yes, it does the exact same thing when you turn the key as when the main battery switch is turned on…
What DC converter/recall swap? I am guessing it has not been done…
There is ~80V at the controller… I converted this car to run on 24 90Ah LiFePO4 batteries a couple of years ago. It has a BMS, Zivan charger has been reprogrammed etc…
Thanks for the responses everyone. 🙂
Mike
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### Author:  [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/6 "2023-04-29T16:22:34Z")
> [@mdknapp](#):
>
> What DC converter/recall swap? I am guessing it has not been done
There were a a few recalls on the early GEMs. The DC-DC converter was actually recalled twice,
Run your VIN though the NHTSA database, see what comes back.
> **[Recalls | NHTSA](https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls)**
>
> Use our VIN lookup tool to check for recalls on your car, or search by make and model. Also, get recall information on car seats, tires and equipment.
Unfortunately, there were a large number of fraudulent recall claims on the 00-040 GEMs, so it’s not unheard of to have the database report a DC-DC recall was performed on a vehicle, when it was not. Someone basically pocketed the new converter that GEM shipped for that vehicle. So, if yours comes back as performed, best to post a description of the converter or take a picture of it and post it and someone here will ID the one you have.
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/7 "2023-04-29T16:34:52Z")
OK Thanks… I just looked up the VIN and actually the car is an '01 e4… I guess I forgot the year… 🙂
Here is what shows up in the database:
Jan 04,2013
**Manufacturer Recall Number** L-13-02
**NHTSA Recall Number**
**Recall Status** Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
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### Author:  [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:42pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/8 "2023-04-29T16:42:32Z")
But since you seem to know the inner workings of your car, you may have seen the offending component or it’s replacement.
The original control boards in the early cars were open PC boards. These performed a bit of key switching, some power redirecting of lights, but mostly downconverted PackV to 12 to run car accessories.
Here is one example:
The open design and it’s location caused some electrical connection issues that had ranged from random glitches to bursting into flames.
They were the subject of a national recall and replaced by a wiring harness, a Key Relay, A delay off timer, and a self contained DC Converter (usually a Surepower DC Converter)
Depending on your response, it may taylor a direction of test points that may be the cause of your power problem.
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/9 "2023-04-29T16:48:26Z")
There is not an open board in the car… The DC-DC converter is self contained…
FYI, this car is at our house by Mt. Hood in Oregon… It is in a covered area all winter, but the humidity here is extremely high in the rainy season… I’m wondering if a contact got corroded or something like that. Thanks!
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### Author:  [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/10 "2023-04-29T16:51:10Z")
> [@mdknapp](#):
>
> Jan 04,2013
>
> **Manufacturer Recall Number** L-13-02
>
> **NHTSA Recall Number**
>
> **Recall Status** Recall Incomplete, remedy not yet available
That’s a parking brake handle recall,
> **[RCMN-13V003-9568.pdf](https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2013/RCMN-13V003-9568.pdf)**
>
> 257.27 KB
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### Author:  [@JarJarJava](https://community.electricforum.com/u/JarJarJava)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/11 "2023-04-29T16:53:35Z")
> [@mdknapp](#):
>
> The DC-DC converter is self contained…
Black finned box or silver box with potting epoxy and no fins?
The black finned box was the final working DC-DC, the potted silver one was the first replacement for the open board, but it was found to be faulty and subsequently also recalled.
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### Author:  [@dougl](https://community.electricforum.com/u/dougl)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/12 "2023-04-29T16:59:49Z")
> [@JarJarJava](#):
>
> finned
If it’s the aluminum box filled with epoxy version then look at the connector on the far right. My 2002 had an issue with that connector both rubbing against the side of the lower dash and had sealant inside the connector and these made it intermittent.
There should be a 2 wire harness under your dash marked 12V AUX and it’s an easy way to check for 12V(13.x) from the 72V-\>12V converter. There are also fuses and you could see if your headlights or wipers or turn signals work too.
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### Author:  [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/13 "2023-04-29T17:12:02Z")
Is this car where you can run out and do some tests?
The other Items that you might have seen would be the Delay Off Timer and key relay. (I hesitate to call it IGN because there is no real fire going on)
When Key is ON - do any of your accessories work? Lights, Signals?
Either your DC converter is glitching, or possibly going into power shut down due to an overload in it’s output.
Or your Key Relay is having issues.
* * *
Timer is the square below. It controls power going to the accessories(lighting, wiper, horn and what not.
The other item is at the top of the pic (the Key Power Relay). it uses 12v keyed power to make/break B+(in your case ~80v) and sends it to Pin2 which wakes up the controller Logic board.
It might be this relay has failed in such a way that it momentarily powers up then dies. The Controller sees this as a power off and momentarily lights up the display.
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/14 "2023-04-29T19:10:12Z")
OK so a few things:
The DC-DC is a Sure Power Industries… It is black with fins and I confirmed it’s working at the auxiliary power outlet. Wipers work as well.
Pin 2 of the timer… So, if I measure between B- at controller and pin 2 of the relay board, I see 85V, even though between B- and B+ at the controller it’s 78V… How is that even possible? Also, the voltage is the same regardless of whether or not the “ignition” is on…
Thanks for the help!
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/15 "2023-04-29T19:12:56Z")
I mean pin 2 of the timer, not pin 2 of the relay…
Mike
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### Author:  [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/16 "2023-04-29T21:19:02Z")
If your accessories are working you can Ignore the timer.
Locate that other relay. there are 4 wires. Grn & Bk are your 12v signal. (ref each other).
White is B+ (ref B-) and Gray goes to Pin3. Pull both of those Wht & Gry wires off and connect both of those together. Conveniently, a 5A Blade fuse fits right in there if you should have one of those handy.
Does your round dash display light up?
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:07pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/17 "2023-04-29T22:07:05Z")
Yes, that fixed it! Thanks so much! So is it the relay that needs to be replaced?
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### Author:  [@AssyRequired](https://community.electricforum.com/u/AssyRequired)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2023, 12:28am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/18 "2023-04-30T00:28:24Z")
Ah, good.
You can source the same relay or in a pinch you can use a standard 12v cube relay.
There is probably a reason you shouldn’t mix 12v and 80v in the same cube but I also have been know to run with scissors too.
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### Author:  [@mdknapp](https://community.electricforum.com/u/mdknapp)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/19 "2023-04-30T02:15:30Z")
Thanks for all of the help… I really appreciate it! I have two similar relays to cut off 120VAC to the Zivan if the BMS sees that one of the 24 lithium cells is overvoltaged during charging… So, you know, as long as you are thoughtful, and the scissor tips are pointed away from you, it’s all good… 🙂
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### Author:  [@Dennis1](https://community.electricforum.com/u/Dennis1)
#### Post date: [August 18, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.electricforum.com/t/gem-displays-4-things-briefly-when-ignition-is-switched-on-then-goes-blank/26280/20 "2023-08-18T16:32:53Z")
I have this exact same problem described in this thread, and the information is very helpful. Thank you for all your invaluable help. However, I don’t know where the offending relay is located or how to source a replacement. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Dennis
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